Shafts: Few or Many Growth Rings?

jazznpool

jazznpool

Superior Cues--Unchalked!
Gold Member
Silver Member
mchnhed

mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member
Sorry, my first post here in the exclusive world of cue makers.

jazznpool said:
If you do a search here and actually spend a few hours studying you'll see this has been talked about in depth many times here with lots of opinions and debate. About the only factor where there is almost unanimous agreement is that the more straight grained the maple is the better.
Click to expand...
 
mchnhed

mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member
mchnhed said:
Many tight growth rings?
or
Few, Widely spaced growth rings?

See discussion:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5962211&postcount=19

Thank You
Click to expand...

jazznpool said:
If you do a search here and actually spend a few hours studying you'll see this has been talked about in depth many times here with lots of opinions and debate. About the only factor where there is almost unanimous agreement is that the more straight grained the maple is the better.
Click to expand...
Like This?

Grade AAA Superb SNO-WHITE: If you require absolutely pefect Sno-White shafts with straight grain and nice growth ring concentration then these are for you. Order a few and see for yourself. Supplies limited.

Grade AAA Superb: These are absolutely Superb shafts with an incredible number of growth rings. These will average 12 - 15+ rings per inch with many in the 18+ rings per inch. These are seldomly seen this nice. In fact, these are like having naturally laminated shafts.

Grade AAA Excellent: These are hard straight grained Canadian maple and suitable for all high end cues. These are clear, straight spine and no grain run-off. These will average 8 to 18+ rings per inch. These are seldomly seen this nice. Exceptional shafts.
Grade AAA: These are straight, white, may contain a slight amount of sugar but these are usually clear, no grain run-off and a beautiful straight spine. These average about 6 -12 or more growth rings per inch. These are strictly for high end cues or low end cues with great shafts.

Grade AA: These are straight, white and a tiny amount of sugar may show (very slight), may have slight grain run-off. These average 6 -12 or more growth rings per inch. Excellent for middle range cues -- excellent value.

Grade A: These are straight, white and/or may be slightly off white, small amounts of sugar may show, slight grain run off and may show a slight wiggle in the grain. These average 6-12 or more growth rings per inch. Great for lower end cues and sneaky petes. These are really nice dowels and will make very nice shafts.

Grade B+: Straight, white to sometimes slightly off white; will show some sugar, may show some grain run-off and/or grain my wiggle. These average 5-10 growth rings per inch but may run higher as we sort for quality. Strictly for lower end cues, repairs and sneaky petes. We grade conservatively and these are better than they sound.

In our opinion shafts should be hung from the business end (ferrules end) so as to allow all the weight of the thicker end to pull the shaft downward. This will allow the shafts to dry and stabilize in a straighter and more natural manner. There are some cue makers who hang them from the thicker end, and we're sure that they have their reasons. Hey if it works for them then I guess it's just fine. However, we process more shafts in one year than all cuemakers will probably process in their career and thick end down works better for us and our clients. That's one reason we receive so many compliments on how many shafts stay straight per 100. There is a method to our madness and it works.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
I like 100 rings per inch.:eek:
Ok, nothing wrong with 10-15 RPI's so long as they are straight and dense.
 
Last edited:
Sheldon

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
Sounds like a used car salesman. Wouldn't trust anyone that talks like that.


mchnhed said:
Like This?

Grade AAA Superb SNO-WHITE: If you require absolutely pefect Sno-White shafts with straight grain and nice growth ring concentration then these are for you. Order a few and see for yourself. Supplies limited.

Grade AAA Superb: These are absolutely Superb shafts with an incredible number of growth rings. These will average 12 - 15+ rings per inch with many in the 18+ rings per inch. These are seldomly seen this nice. In fact, these are like having naturally laminated shafts.

Grade AAA Excellent: These are hard straight grained Canadian maple and suitable for all high end cues. These are clear, straight spine and no grain run-off. These will average 8 to 18+ rings per inch. These are seldomly seen this nice. Exceptional shafts.
Grade AAA: These are straight, white, may contain a slight amount of sugar but these are usually clear, no grain run-off and a beautiful straight spine. These average about 6 -12 or more growth rings per inch. These are strictly for high end cues or low end cues with great shafts.

Grade AA: These are straight, white and a tiny amount of sugar may show (very slight), may have slight grain run-off. These average 6 -12 or more growth rings per inch. Excellent for middle range cues -- excellent value.

Grade A: These are straight, white and/or may be slightly off white, small amounts of sugar may show, slight grain run off and may show a slight wiggle in the grain. These average 6-12 or more growth rings per inch. Great for lower end cues and sneaky petes. These are really nice dowels and will make very nice shafts.

Grade B+: Straight, white to sometimes slightly off white; will show some sugar, may show some grain run-off and/or grain my wiggle. These average 5-10 growth rings per inch but may run higher as we sort for quality. Strictly for lower end cues, repairs and sneaky petes. We grade conservatively and these are better than they sound.

In our opinion shafts should be hung from the business end (ferrules end) so as to allow all the weight of the thicker end to pull the shaft downward. This will allow the shafts to dry and stabilize in a straighter and more natural manner. There are some cue makers who hang them from the thicker end, and we're sure that they have their reasons. Hey if it works for them then I guess it's just fine. However, we process more shafts in one year than all cuemakers will probably process in their career and thick end down works better for us and our clients. That's one reason we receive so many compliments on how many shafts stay straight per 100. There is a method to our madness and it works.
Click to expand...
 
whammo57

whammo57

Kim Walker
Silver Member
if the grain is straight......... make a shaft............ don't bother counting rings

Kim
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Sheldon said:
Sounds like a used car salesman. Wouldn't trust anyone that talks like that.
Click to expand...

:D
Same used car salesman who bragged he only uses cheap router bits in cutting his shafts but tries to sell way overpriced Whiteside slotter. :D
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
whammo57 said:
if the grain is straight......... make a shaft............ don't bother counting rings

Kim
Click to expand...

What ^he said. Don't stress ring count. In fact, forget anything you've ever heard and use your own head for second to answer a simple question. What wood is best? A tree grows stunted and dwarfed by its competitors(other trees) and bad habitat, so it has a bunch of grain lines per inch. Another tree grows fast & strong because it's the dominant among its peers and has a healthy habitat, so it has wide grain lines. Which do you want on your cue?

There are many, many variables, but those two scenarios are by far the most common. I spend a lot of time in the woods cutting trees. If I cut half a dozen trees all near one another and all are same age, except one is considerably larger and has wider grain, that tells me it is the dominant tree of the stand and likely has the best wood. It sprouted up fast and drown it's siblings of sunlight. When I'm turning squares into shafts, my initial thoughts are pretty much always confirmed.
 
BarenbruggeCues

BarenbruggeCues

Unregistered User
Silver Member
You can throw what you think you know about high grain count shaft wood in the toilet because most of it is made up to try and sell cues.
High quality shaft wood has more moving parts than just being "supposed" old growth, high ring count wood. As Eric mentioned, in modern times, high growth ring count generally has zero to do with how old the tree was when it landed on the ground.
I've had many 8 to 10 years across an inch dowel turn into some high quality playing shafts.
 
Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
BarenbruggeCues said:
You can throw what you think you know about high grain count shaft wood in the toilet because most of it is made up to try and sell cues.
High quality shaft wood has more moving parts than just being "supposed" old growth, high ring count wood. As Eric mentioned, in modern times, high growth ring count generally has zero to do with how old the tree was when it landed on the ground.
I've had many 8 to 10 years across an inch dowel turn into some high quality playing shafts.
Click to expand...

"old growth" means only that the tree was 150yrs+ old when harvested. That's the technical definition. If the tree was 150yrs old and 30" diameter, that means 15" radius, which means 10grain per inch. 10gpi is hardly what anybody would think of when they hear the term, "old growth".

Now take an under story tree with stunted growth. It's 100yrs old with 10" diameter, 5" radius, which equals 20gpi.

Either of those scenarios are not only possible, but fairly common. More common is a 20" tree that's 100yrs old. Put the pith to the north face, leaving 12-15gpi on one side of the log and 6-8gpi on the other, rounding 10gpi to the east & west. That a pretty typical maple tree, whether it was cut in northern MI or the mountains of GA. Less common is true old growth. I cut one in WI that was over 3' diameter, and it gave me loads of caramel brown shafts that had 6-10gpi. Healthy trees live long and grow fast. Unhealthy trees grow slow & die young. Extreme tight grain indicates extreme slow growth. In my shop, 6gpi is not just ok. It's welcomed.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
All these shaft talk is confusing me.:D
We're not even talking about how they are dried.
My supplier swears by one method.
I can't disagree with him.
The shafts I get from him are stiff and dense. Not as pretty and clean from the biggest Canadian supplier.


Some dry their maple so they come out really white.
My supplier doesn't care if they come out white or not.
He says he keeps the integrity of the wood . Fwiw.

So many keep calling my shafts old growth and I tell them they are not. But, they sure don't come from young trees.

No PM for the source. He doesn't want to deal with cue makers anymore and I don't blame him one bit.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
BarenbruggeCues said:
Thanks for ruining him.
Click to expand...

Hah! :D
Just imagine talking to countless of " Let me try 25 pcs. " tire kickers .
One day he just quit taking calls. Left the country even.
Last time I requested some, he had to pick boards and dried them separately.
He deals with much thicker boards for a much more profitable business.

I ordered a pallet. 40% went to that wood hoarder in the bay area.
 
Last edited:
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
All these shaft talk is confusing me.:D
We're not even talking about how they are dried.
My supplier swears by one method.
I can't disagree with him.
The shafts I get from him are stiff and dense. Not as pretty and clean from the biggest Canadian supplier.


Some dry their maple so they come out really white.
My supplier doesn't care if they come out white or not.
He says he keeps the integrity of the wood . Fwiw.

So many keep calling my shafts old growth and I tell them they are not. But, they sure don't come from young trees.

No PM for the source. He doesn't want to deal with cue makers anymore and I don't blame him one bit.
Click to expand...

Joey,

I have only seen one of your cues that belongs to a guy I know here and I always tell him that the shaft is one of the best I've seen. I haven't really played with his cue to tell how it plays, but the quality of the wood and workmanship are superb. The finish is super smooth and that is the way I wish all shafts were.
 
pescadoman

pescadoman

Randy
Silver Member
mchnhed said:
Like This?

Grade AAA Superb SNO-WHITE: If you require absolutely pefect Sno-White shafts with straight grain and nice growth ring concentration then these are for you. Order a few and see for yourself. Supplies limited.

Grade AAA Superb: These are absolutely Superb shafts with an incredible number of growth rings. These will average 12 - 15+ rings per inch with many in the 18+ rings per inch. These are seldomly seen this nice. In fact, these are like having naturally laminated shafts.

Grade AAA Excellent: These are hard straight grained Canadian maple and suitable for all high end cues. These are clear, straight spine and no grain run-off. These will average 8 to 18+ rings per inch. These are seldomly seen this nice. Exceptional shafts.
Grade AAA: These are straight, white, may contain a slight amount of sugar but these are usually clear, no grain run-off and a beautiful straight spine. These average about 6 -12 or more growth rings per inch. These are strictly for high end cues or low end cues with great shafts.

Grade AA: These are straight, white and a tiny amount of sugar may show (very slight), may have slight grain run-off. These average 6 -12 or more growth rings per inch. Excellent for middle range cues -- excellent value.

Grade A: These are straight, white and/or may be slightly off white, small amounts of sugar may show, slight grain run off and may show a slight wiggle in the grain. These average 6-12 or more growth rings per inch. Great for lower end cues and sneaky petes. These are really nice dowels and will make very nice shafts.

Grade B+: Straight, white to sometimes slightly off white; will show some sugar, may show some grain run-off and/or grain my wiggle. These average 5-10 growth rings per inch but may run higher as we sort for quality. Strictly for lower end cues, repairs and sneaky petes. We grade conservatively and these are better than they sound.

In our opinion shafts should be hung from the business end (ferrules end) so as to allow all the weight of the thicker end to pull the shaft downward. This will allow the shafts to dry and stabilize in a straighter and more natural manner. There are some cue makers who hang them from the thicker end, and we're sure that they have their reasons. Hey if it works for them then I guess it's just fine. However, we process more shafts in one year than all cuemakers will probably process in their career and thick end down works better for us and our clients. That's one reason we receive so many compliments on how many shafts stay straight per 100. There is a method to our madness and it works.
Click to expand...

The guy who wrote that sounds like a complete asshat who more than likely screws customers at his earliest convenience. While his descriptions sound nice, I suggest against spending any money with someone who talks like that...regardless of what kool-aid he might pour down your throat over the phone. He also sounds similar to a guy who screwed me with a 5,000.00(yes 5k) order of shaft wood and then publicly laughed about it on here.

Also sounds a bit like the asshat who sent me a worthless, except for a good laugh(I framed it), cease and desist order, from the Better Call Saul school of attorneys(he can't afford a real one) , because I posted proof of his shenanigans and he just couldn't handle it. Proof of his prepubescence is represented wildly and without shame over his entire website, where he lashes out against legitimate sellers and rips off their logos and ideas. Why be original when someone else already has???

If you have, in fact, visited that person's website I suggest you immediately run to the nearest vat of bleach and jump in as there is no telling what damage has already been done....

Take all this with a grain of salt if you simply have money to burn.....
 
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