English Shots

This shot and position is probably more consistent with just low english. Hit it slow/medium speed and get a little draw on it.

Once you see where it's going with low then incorporate a touch of side spin to get the exact angle you want.

You can vary the angle by using different amounts of low and different amounts of side spin.

To practice, I recommend isolating so you can see the effects of each. So shoot it with no spin, a little low, a little more low, etc...

Then hit it with no spin, a little right, a little more right, etc...

Then combine the two.

You can make the CB go anywhere from hitting the 6 ball to hitting the 9 ball by changing up the amount of side and low.

As far as aiming goes with low right - yes, the english is going to throw the CB to the right. Also, the CB is going to deflect to the right and then swerve back to the left. The deflection and swerve will roughly cancel each other out (not exactly, but roughly) depending on speed. Leaving only the throw. So you will want to aim to hit the ball a little thick (undercut slightly) when you use low left.

The thickness or thinness of the cut on the 1 ball also determines how well the english will take so experiment with that too. You can cheat the pocket a little to help you get the angle you want.

sixpack said:

This shot and position is probably more consistent with just low english. Hit it slow/medium speed and get a little draw on it.

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Yep. Gotta hit it a little harder, but that's more than compensated for by not having to deal with squirt/swerve.

Once you see where it's going with low then incorporate a touch of side spin to get the exact angle you want.

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Or stick with low and vary tip height.

The deflection and swerve will roughly cancel each other out (not exactly, but roughly) depending on speed.

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Sounds about right for this shot, but it's a softer shot than the draw shot, so swerve is a substantial factor that changes with conditions.

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

Yep. Gotta hit it a little harder, but that's more than compensated for by not having to deal with squirt/swerve.


Or stick with low and vary tip height.


Sounds about right for this shot, but it's a softer shot than the draw shot, so swerve is a substantial factor that changes with conditions.

pj
chgo

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Agree with everything you said. Especially last point. I was getting tired of typing... Hope you are doing well.

Bob Jewett said:

I think that draw only will not get you back past the side pocket unless you hit it much too hard.

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Tried it - it can be done easily enough on my usual table (with OK Simonis 860) - but I have to hit it hard enough to hit the near long rail and bounce back out a little. It's gotta be simple on newer cloth. [Edit: Added pics below of how the shot plays on VP4 - just about like my live test. Of course VP4 isn't "proof" the shot can be made.]

I've been meaning to do some testing of the limits for various angle cuts with and without sidespin. Might be about time...

pj
chgo

View attachment 93387

Patrick Johnson said:

Tried it - it can be done easily enough on my usual table (with OK Simonis 860) - but I have to hit it hard enough to hit the near long rail and bounce back out a little. It's gotta be simple on newer cloth. [Edit: Added pics below of how the shot plays on VP4 - just about like my live test. Of course VP4 isn't "proof" the shot can be made.]

I've been meaning to do some testing of the limits for various angle cuts with and without sidespin. Might be about time...

pj
chgo

View attachment 93387

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Patrick, when I look at the diagram of the table from above, it looks like an easier shot than the picture below it from the shooter's POV. Doesn't the picture below look like a much sharper angle?

When I look at the top diagram, I'm thinking, it's not easy but it's doable. But when I look at the picture below it, I'm thinking I may have to play a safe shot.

DrCue'sProtege said:

I had this layout yesterday on my home table when I was breaking some racks of 9-Ball. Using about a tip of left english seemed the only shot to go from the 1B to the 2B, per the dotted lines. I wanted the CB to come back past the side pocket for the shot on the 2B. Anyway, I overcut the 1B which, I assume, was because of the English and the fact that it caused the 1B to be overcut.

So, I practiced this shot quite a bit and never got the hang of it. Did I play this shot wrong? And if it is indeed an English type shot, anybody got any tips?


Oh, and just so there's no misunderstanding, the first shot is where the measles CB is and the white CB is where I wanted to go.

r/DCP


https://pad-v1.chalkysticks.com/05529.png

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I came across this video from Hillbilly Bryant a while back. It can help you with this particular shot.

https://youtu.be/Mi4bXI4wab4

Here is a couple of 60 degree rule samples when the object is close to the rail. Credit to Ekkes Schneider-Lombard of Samba pool.

FranCrimi said:

Patrick, when I look at the diagram of the table from above, it looks like an easier shot than the picture below it from the shooter's POV. Doesn't the picture below look like a much sharper angle?

When I look at the top diagram, I'm thinking, it's not easy but it's doable. But when I look at the picture below it, I'm thinking I may have to play a safe shot.

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I see what you mean - it doesn’t look like such a steep angle when at a real table. Maybe because the pic is cropped so we can’t see as much of the table?

pj
chgo

Patrick Johnson said:

I see what you mean - it doesn’t look like such a steep angle when at a real table. Maybe because the pic is cropped so we can’t see as much of the table?

pj
chgo

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Could be, being that it's not a real photo but a virtual one. But the angle is definitely distorted in that POV diagram. Maybe a program deficiency.

Bob Jewett said:

For the plain follow there is the much simpler "one fourth as far down the table" system. If you are four diamonds above the object ball (cue ball origin location) the cue ball will go down the table one diamond after hitting the object ball. This is for a rolling cue ball without side spin.

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I seem to recall that this is about the same as the amount of follow you get away from the rail?

pj
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Bob Jewett said:

When a ball rolls straight into a cushion, it looses about half of its speed and about 75% of its energy.

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I wonder if there's an easy way to figure how much speed is lost at different approach angles.

pj
chgo

Cool little Bob Jewett article...........................

https://engineering.berkeley.edu/2017/01/bob-jewetts-double-life You rock Bob.

Bob Jewett said:

One of the things that complicates the question is the fact that the energy is split between translation and rotation. The speed that a ball has just after the rail collision is different from the final speed after the ball is rolling smoothly on the cloth.

Even if you only look at a ball going straight into a cushion, the stickiness of the cushion and its height can change things. Dr. Dave has some video of this along with speed measurements that were extracted from the vidoe. I don't think he looks at speed-loss for angles other than direct.

One possibility is to have the ball roll down one ramp, hit a cushion and go up another ramp. You would have to translate the height into speed, but the measurement would be fairly simple.

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Very interesting, as usual. Thanks!

pj
chgo

garczar said:

https://engineering.berkeley.edu/2017/01/bob-jewetts-double-life You rock Bob.

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"When Jewett entered Berkeley as a math major, what began as synchronicity turned into conflict. He spent so much time at the Student Union’s 17 billiards tables that he flunked out."

lol

pj <- rocks even more in my eyes
chgo

English shots

Dang .. great info!!