That's not a break and run!!!

Mkindsv · Jun 14, 2018

So during League (TAP) Monday night. Shooter in question breaks, makes 2 balls on the break. Proceeds to make the 1,2,3 and then combo the 4/9...winning the game. Player says "that's a break and run" players coach doesn't mark it as a break and run and argues "I dont see that as a break and run". There are no definitions for break and run in the TAP rulebook. Who is right?

pwd72s · Jun 14, 2018

Hmm. If a scorebook is being kept, perhaps there should be a distinction between break and run and break & win?

Knels · Jun 14, 2018

Player for sure, don't know what coach is smoking.

PoolBum · Jun 14, 2018

Unless there are league rules specifying otherwise, that's a break and run. If you break and run out without your opponent ever coming to the table, it is a break and run, short racks included.

Cornerman · Jun 14, 2018

It’s a paid break and run in the league I play, No idea about other leagues.

Freddie <~~~ pay day, baby!

hang-the-9 · Jun 14, 2018

Mkindsv said:
So during League (TAP) Monday night. Shooter in question breaks, makes 2 balls on the break. Proceeds to make the 1,2,3 and then combo the 4/9...winning the game. Player says "that's a break and run" players coach doesn't mark it as a break and run and argues "I dont see that as a break and run". There are no definitions for break and run in the TAP rulebook. Who is right?

If there are no league rules about it, and there is no difference between other types of wins, would likely be a break and run if there is nothing else.

So they got 5 balls and then the 9, that is probably enough for a break and run. What if they made 5 balls then ran out the 6,7,8,9 for the win? Would be same thing.

In USAPL rules there are 3 "special" marks for scoring in 9 ball and they specify how many balls you need to pocket.

Break & Run – When a player breaks and runs the rack (pockets a minimum of 5 balls) to win the game, put “BR” in the game score box and simply count as 14 points when totaling the “Total Score.”

Table Run – When the “Non breaking player” runs the table (pockets a minimum of 5 balls) on their first turn at the table. Mark “TR” in the game score box and count as 14 points when totaling the score.

Win Zip – Winning player wins on their second turn or more and holds the losing player to zero points. Mark “WZ” in the game score box and count as 14 when totaling the score.

So in USAPL what the player did was a break and run since they pocketed 5 balls.

West Point 1987 · Jun 14, 2018

I'm pretty sure Earl's 10 (really 11) pack in the Million Dollar Challenge had several 9 on the snaps and shortcuts...almost as many as 9 ball run outs?? Somebody on here might know/chime in?

Celophanewrap · Jun 14, 2018

PoolBum said:
Unless there are league rules specifying otherwise, that's a break and run. If you break and run out without your opponent ever coming to the table, it is a break and run, short racks included.

Wouldn't that a 9 on the break also a B & R?

hang-the-9 · Jun 14, 2018

West Point 1987 said:
I'm pretty sure Earl's 10 (really 11) pack in the Million Dollar Challenge had several 9 on the snaps and shortcuts...almost as many as 9 ball run outs?? Somebody on here might know/chime in?

Yes he had a few 9 balls go in on the break. If I was the insurer, I would make sure that those did not count, or at the most one 9 on the break of the 10. Don't need to end the run, but it would not count towards the count. I would have specified a minimum ball count run out needed to be counted. It's not very hard to end up with 3-4 early 9 balls in 10 racks or more. Especially with people not being careful with the rack as in those days many were not.

Mkindsv · Jun 14, 2018

I personally believe it was a break and run and should have been marked that way...either way I was overruled, it happens I suppose. There are three options in scoring...Standard Win, 9 ball break, and Break and Run. Though it is an early 9, I would consider it a break and run because the other guy never touched his cue. JMHO

trob · Jun 15, 2018

I know in my local Apa league they don’t count and early 9 ball ( 9 ball pocketed with other balls still on the table) as a break and run

Nostroke · Jun 15, 2018

trob said:
I know in my local Apa league they don’t count and early 9 ball ( 9 ball pocketed with other balls still on the table) as a break and run

If it was after a 3-pak-It would now be a 4 pack of course so yes.

BTW- what one of you is arguing is exactly what the non pool playing Insurance company argued so as NOT to pay Earl.

trob · Jun 15, 2018

Nostroke said:
If it was after a 3-pak-It would now be a 4 pack of course so yes.

BTW- what one? of you is arguing is exactly what the non pool playing Insurance company argued so as NOT to pay Earl.

Just a run in leagues. I think In the insurance situation with Earl it was never stipulated if that was a run or not. I could be wrong

pt109 · Jun 15, 2018

I’ve told this story before....but I think it fits here.

I was at a nine ball tournament years ago....races to seven.
Before the tournament started....the owner, a good guy, says...
“First player to run the set out gets a $1,000 bonus.”
....but then he thought about it and said “If you make the nine off the break, it doesn’t
count as part of a seven-pack.”

So I thought about it....went over to him and told him to remove me from consideration
for the bonus.
He was astounded....he asked “Why?”
I told him Imdon’t feel like being in a situation where I run a six-pack....
....and then hope I don’t make the nine on the break.

He thought about it and announced to the room.....
“Nine on the break counts as part of the pack!”

Like I said, he was a good guy.....and reason carried the day

jasonlaus · Jun 15, 2018

West Point 1987 said:
I'm pretty sure Earl's 10 (really 11) pack in the Million Dollar Challenge had several 9 on the snaps and shortcuts...almost as many as 9 ball run outs?? Somebody on here might know/chime in?

Earl finished it with an early 9.
Jason

Michael Andros · Jun 15, 2018

pt109 said:
I’ve told this story before....but I think it fits here.

I was at a nine ball tournament years ago....races to seven.
Before the tournament started....the owner, a good guy, says...
“First player to run the set out gets a $1,000 bonus.”
....but then he thought about it and said “If you make the nine off the break, it doesn’t
count as part of a seven-pack.”

So I thought about it....went over to him and told him to remove me from consideration
for the bonus.
He was astounded....he asked “Why?”
I told him Imdon’t feel like being in a situation where I run a six-pack....
....and then hope I don’t make the nine on the break.

He thought about it and announced to the room.....
“Nine on the break counts as part of the pack!”

Like I said, he was a good guy.....and reason carried the day

tap tap tap

tucson9ball · Jun 15, 2018

West Point 1987 said:
I'm pretty sure Earl's 10 (really 11) pack in the Million Dollar Challenge had several 9 on the snaps and shortcuts...almost as many as 9 ball run outs?? Somebody on here might know/chime in?

9 on the snap did not count, it would be spotted up.
He did however figure out how to rack so the 9 ball was headed toward the corner. This lead to a few combos, for a short rack.

tucson9ball · Jun 15, 2018

Mkindsv said:
So during League (TAP) Monday night. Shooter in question breaks, makes 2 balls on the break. Proceeds to make the 1,2,3 and then combo the 4/9...winning the game. Player says "that's a break and run" players coach doesn't mark it as a break and run and argues "I dont see that as a break and run". There are no definitions for break and run in the TAP rulebook. Who is right?

I've always defined a break n run as : If a player breaks and proceeds to win the game before the other guy gets to the table, it's a B&R.

justadub · Jun 15, 2018

Pretty sure that leagues are the only place where a "break and run" is acknowledged, as an accomplishment. Otherwise, its "packages"... Neither is wrong.

In our league, its only a break and run if you run all the balls on the table, not an early 9.

AtLarge · Jun 15, 2018

tucson9ball said:
9 on the snap did not count, it would be spotted up.
He did however figure out how to rack so the 9 ball was headed toward the corner. This lead to a few combos, for a short rack.

The 9 on the snap definitely did count in Earl's million-dollar run. This historical event has been discussed numerous times in these forums, and different people have different opinions as to exactly how many times Earl made the 9-ball on the break. But zero times has never been claimed, to my knowledge.

That's not a break and run!!!

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