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Reload this Page "Hustling": Is It Sleazy Or Clever (Or Both)?
View Poll Results: Is "Hustling" Sleazy, Clever, or Both?
I Think Hustling Is Sleazy. 129 39.94%
I Think Hustling Is Clever. 40 12.38%
I Think Hustling Is Both Sleazy & Clever. 154 47.68%
Voters: 323. You may not vote on this poll

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Exclamation 05-10-2016, 06:31 PM

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Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
I walked into a 'dump' situation once...the best player in the room had a few locals betting on him...he was playing a stranger one-pocket.
It didn't look right to me....but I started betting $50 a game anyways.
The other betters sensed the dump early and stopped betting....I kept betting.
...cost me about $350....they finally got bored with chopping my modest bet and quit.

I waited till the local player went home and then made a game with the stranger...
...giving me the 8 for $100 a game (9-ball).....I took my time, got the bet up to $300...
...he was mad as a wet hen when he realized that he was the one who needed weight.

Any of you guys feel sorry for this stranger?
Sleazy.
  
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05-11-2016, 01:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Tramp Steamer View Post
Are you one of those "hustlers" we're all talking about, Bmore?
No, not really. My point was I've been going to pool halls long enough to know that if you lose money its your own fault ( dumps excluded ). I know that anytime you gamble it is possible to lose money. If I gauge someone's speed wrong that is lack of skill on my part. Here's a queation for ya, you go into a bar and get on a $5 or $10 challenge table. Do you play good enough to win or do you just outright demolish everyone and kill the table in less than a half hour? You must remember we are pool players and saints we are not. Most are not bad people but not saints. We are talking about gambling here, so remember that person wants to take your money just as much as you want there's.
  
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05-11-2016, 01:46 AM

It seems pretty hard to deny that hustling is sleazy if you take a good look at it.

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05-11-2016, 02:51 AM

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Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
It seems pretty hard to deny that hustling is sleazy if you take a good look at it.


Well, the old adage is that you can't hustle an honest man. That any hustle is based in part on the greed of the mark, drawing him in.


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05-11-2016, 03:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
Well, the old adage is that you can't hustle an honest man. That any hustle is based in part on the greed of the mark, drawing him in.
But their action is independant of yours.



Fact is you are the one who still took action in conning the man out of his money. I'm not saying that I haven't done worse. We are all human. I'm just looking at it to determine if I would consider it sleazy.
  
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05-11-2016, 04:19 AM

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Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
Well, the old adage is that you can't hustle an honest man. That any hustle is based in part on the greed of the mark, drawing him in.
This reminds of a poster who used to post in NPR about his dating difficulties.


He used to post about being mad at a girl because he did this or did that and she was using him. I think he would give her money and do favors like give her rides and stuff like that and then he'd get mad because he wasn't getting any sex..


Looking at that situation though. In reality he was trying to hustle her. Deep down he knew she wasn't going to give him sex so he would do stuff like give her money or give her rides with hope that she would give him sex. That is a straight up hustle. I think he thought she would eventually return his favors with some favors of her own. Lol manipulation!

What happened though. She would give him the impression that sex was possible knowing that he was never going to get any, but she wouldn't tell him that because she knew she could use him as long as he thought he had a possibility of sex. She hustled him right back. He likely never even saw himself as a hustler, he just mistakenly thought he was being nice. Of course a nice guy doesn't do things they don't want to do but they go ahead and do it just because she might reward him. That's not nice that's manipulative but he wasn't smart enough to see that. Basically he wasn't even trying to hustle he just was kind of ignorant as to what was going on.


This girl was smart though. She took him for money and favors. Was that sleazy of her? Yeah, I think so. Did he deserve it? Debatable.

The point is not all girls would have taken advantage of the man who put himself in that situation. Some would have let him know that it is in his best interest to move on. Just because someone is ignorant of what is going on and they make theirself an easy target doesn't mean that someone smarter has to take advantage of them and the situation. Some women look for guys like this. They may even give the guy a little action every now and then if his pockets are deep enough. Is it the guys fault ultimately? Yes. But is the girl sleazy? Yes again.

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05-11-2016, 04:24 AM

I think 'hustling' is part of the narcissistic pool players mind set. To him, since there is no real consideration of the other fellow, it (hustling) is a natural, and normal part of pool play.
To put it another way: any empathy one person has for another is lacking, or nonexistent when the hustle is on, and when over is ofttimes justified by insinuating that the mark got what he so richly deserved.
No consideration is given to the person being hustled if he has a gambling problem. Indeed, if an addiction does exist there seems to be even more reason for the hustle to be made, as if the poor fellow needed to be taught a lesson.
In the end, however, neither of the participants are victorious. The hustler invariably losses his swag to a better hustler, and the mark never wins at all.
The biggest loser, in my opinion, has always been the cue sports.


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05-11-2016, 04:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tramp Steamer View Post
I think 'hustling' is part of the narcissistic pool players mind set. To him, since there is no real consideration of the other fellow, it (hustling) is a natural, and normal part of pool play.
To put it another way: any empathy one person has for another is lacking, or nonexistent when the hustle is on, and when over is ofttimes justified by insinuating that the mark got what he so richly deserved.
No consideration is given to the person being hustled if he has a gambling problem. Indeed, if an addiction does exist there seems to be even more reason for the hustle to be made, as if the poor fellow needed to be taught a lesson.
In the end, however, neither of the participants are victorious. The hustler invariably losses his swag to a better hustler, and the mark never wins at all.
The biggest loser, in my opinion, has always been the cue sports.
Tramp I respect your opinion but find it very idealistic. Look at how many people on here love the road stories from CJ and many many others. Two of the most popular times in pool was after The Hustler and TCOM. Dont think that would have been the case if Fast Eddie had put his arm around Vince and said " look son, you have a gambling problem - I'm gonna help you ". I think there may be a couple things going on in this thread. First and foremost sleazy is a very subjective term. Secondly the definition of hustling means something different to everyone. So let me ask you Tramp, what are your thoughts on the example I put forth about a challenge table?
  
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05-11-2016, 05:01 AM

In my mind a true hustler never lets the hustled think they are hustled so no harm done. The problem is the way the hustler has been depicted in that after the match the hustler's ego has to let the mark know they have been hustled. Happens in the bar scene in "the Hustler" and in the Forrest Whitaker scene in TCOM. The true hustler doesn't have that sort of ego so he never let's on. It's just business. Truth be told, we all wish we were that good and confident in the game.


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05-11-2016, 05:17 AM

It's an art form. It's an ambush. It's a skill.

Sleazy or cleaver. Both





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"Hustling": Is It Sleazy Or Clever (Or Both)?
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"Hustling": Is It Sleazy Or Clever (Or Both)? - 05-11-2016, 05:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
This reminds of a poster who used to post in NPR about his dating difficulties.





He used to post about being mad at a girl because he did this or did that and she was using him. I think he would give her money and do favors like give her rides and stuff like that and then he'd get mad because he wasn't getting any sex..





Looking at that situation though. In reality he was trying to hustle her. Deep down he knew she wasn't going to give him sex so he would do stuff like give her money or give her rides with hope that she would give him sex. That is a straight up hustle. I think he thought she would eventually return his favors with some favors of her own. Lol manipulation!



What happened though. She would give him the impression that sex was possible knowing that he was never going to get any, but she wouldn't tell him that because she knew she could use him as long as he thought he had a possibility of sex. She hustled him right back. He likely never even saw himself as a hustler, he just mistakenly thought he was being nice. Of course a nice guy doesn't do things they don't want to do but they go ahead and do it just because she might reward him. That's not nice that's manipulative but he wasn't smart enough to see that. Basically he wasn't even trying to hustle he just was kind of ignorant as to what was going on.





This girl was smart though. She took him for money and favors. Was that sleazy of her? Yeah, I think so. Did he deserve it? Debatable.



The point is not all girls would have taken advantage of the man who put himself in that situation. Some would have let him know that it is in his best interest to move on. Just because someone is ignorant of what is going on and they make theirself an easy target doesn't mean that someone smarter has to take advantage of them and the situation. Some women look for guys like this. They may even give the guy a little action every now and then if his pockets are deep enough. Is it the guys fault ultimately? Yes. But is the girl sleazy? Yes again.


As I recall isn't that poster actually you?
Your story does emphasize precisely how true my statement was.

The girl saw the guy was dying to get in her pants. She capitalized on that by using his "greed", in this instance in the form of lust, to hustle him out money & rides & other things by making him believe if he provided those things, he might get what he wanted.

Now without this "greed" or lust in this instance she could not have accomplished that. His lust drew him in.

Now is this morally reprehensible on her part? Maybe, She did take advantage but perhaps her perspective is he was trying to hustle her out of her pants so he deserved it.

Did he deserve what happened to him? Absolutely! Why you ask? Well if he wasn't trying so hard to get laid he would have never given money or rides or trinkets & only did so in the hopes of getting laid so it wasn't out of kindness or generosity, there was an ulterior motive. Thank you for elaborating my point so nicely.

EDIT: this is exactly the same in a gambling scenario. If the hustled did not have greed thinking he could get something he could not be lured into the trap. The fact that he wanders into it demonstrates his intention is exactly the same as the guy hustling him, he just isn't bright enough to figure out it is him that's being hustled.

Another old adage, If you look around the room & don't see the sucker, then you are the sucker.


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05-11-2016, 05:36 AM

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Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
As I recall isn't that poster actually you?
Your story does emphasize precisely how true my statement was.

The girl saw the guy was dying to get in her pants. She capitalized on that by using his "greed", in this instance in the form of lust, to hustle him out money & rides & other things by making him believe if he provided those things, he might get what he wanted.

Now without this "greed" or lust in this instance she could not have accomplished that. His lust drew him.

Now is this morally reprehensible on her part? Maybe, She did take advantage but perhaps her perspective is he was trying to hustle her out of her pants so he deserved it.

Did he deserve what happened to him? Absolutely! Why you ask? Well if he wasn't trying so hard to get laid he would have never given money or rides or trinkets & only did so in the hopes of getting laid so it wasn't out of kindness or generosity, there was an ulterior motive. Thank you for elaborating my point so nicely.
What about the girl who is so desperate for affection that she will do whatever a pimp wants her to do?
Let's say she doesn't have it in her to leave the only guy who has shown her any real affection for a minute or two and now the only way she gets his affection is by doing what he wants, even though she doesn't want to.

You think she deserves to be used too?

Not judging just curious to see if your thoughts change and if so why.

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05-11-2016, 05:40 AM

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Originally Posted by philly View Post
In my mind a true hustler never lets the hustled think they are hustled so no harm done. The problem is the way the hustler has been depicted in that after the match the hustler's ego has to let the mark know they have been hustled. Happens in the bar scene in "the Hustler" and in the Forrest Whitaker scene in TCOM. The true hustler doesn't have that sort of ego so he never let's on. It's just business. Truth be told, we all wish we were that good and confident in the game.
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Originally Posted by GoldCrown View Post
It's an art form. It's an ambush. It's a skill.
Tap tap tap on both of these posts!!!

Satori, I think you have it backwards brother. The girl in the story is the hustler. As far as the guy at the risk of sounding like a dic - yes he deserved every bit of what he got. If he didn't figure it out VERY QUICKLY he did in fact need that lesson. I have known guys like that, some were even friends. Most would not listen to good advice given by all. While it is kinda sad its also hard to feel bad for someone that allows that to be done to them, esp after EVERYONE has told them what the deal is.

Now, lets be for real. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a this for that relationship as long as both know what the deal is and both are ok with it. Know lets be really real : Most relationships are based on this for that to varying degrees. Doesn't mean its wrong or right it just is what it is. The key is most are intelligent enough to understand that going in.
  
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05-11-2016, 05:45 AM

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Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
What about the girl who is so desperate for affection that she will do whatever a pimp wants her to do?

Let's say she doesn't have it in her to leave the only guy who has shown her any real affection for a minute or two but the only way she gets his affection is by manipulating the situation and doing what he wants, even though she doesn't want to.



You think she deserves to be used too?



Not judging just curious to see if your thoughts change and if so why.


The scenario you describe here is completely different than the one I commented on. This current one smacks of self esteem issues of a maladjusted person who is being mentally abused & preyed upon. Not the same thing.


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05-11-2016, 05:47 AM

Can anyone else chime in and give thoughts to my challenge table example. I am going to say this upfront : If 10 people on here say they would just get up and play balls to the wall and try to absolutely crush every person that gets on the table I am calling BS on 9 of them!
  
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