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Reload this Page "Hustling": Is It Sleazy Or Clever (Or Both)?
View Poll Results: Is "Hustling" Sleazy, Clever, or Both?
I Think Hustling Is Sleazy. 129 39.94%
I Think Hustling Is Clever. 40 12.38%
I Think Hustling Is Both Sleazy & Clever. 154 47.68%
Voters: 323. You may not vote on this poll

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05-11-2016, 10:49 AM

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Originally Posted by PoolChump View Post
Playing weaker players hurts your game. Play somewhere else where you lose and you will win in the long run.:banghead :
Do you not know what a "Challenge Table" is? I have no idea the skill level of the next player to step up. The next player could be a "Pool Champ or Chump". The idea for me is to make enough money to pay for the night out. It's called having "fun".
  
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05-11-2016, 10:55 AM

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Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
Do you not know what a "Challenge Table" is? I have no idea the skill level of the next player to step up. The next player could be a "Pool Champ or Chump". The idea for me is to make enough money to pay for the night out. It's called having "fun".
Chumps always win.
  
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  (#198)
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05-11-2016, 11:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
I do realize that the "bad guy" image always appeals to a certain number of people.
John Dillinger had movies made about him too. But at the end of the day, he was still a thief. A brilliant thief.

I do realize that playing for money is not inherently sleazy, neither is gambling - when the risks are clearly known or defined.

But the question isn't about popularity, wagering, or gambling. It's an opinion question on deception, in whatever form it comes.

Yes, people do it all the time. Oh well.
Would I do it? No.
It might be fun to play dress-up for a while, but at the end of the day, I'd still be just a pretender and a thief.

I will beat you on the table with my pool playing skills, not with better lies than you.
If you need lies to win, you need more practice.

Mr Bond, I guess this is what I'm saying - I will agree that in the strictest moral sense intentionally not playing your best to try to extract the most money out of your opponent IS WRONG. But who amongst us has the highest moral authority such as a saint, a priest ( no jokes please ) or whomever? Now that argument by itself admittedly would not be enough so I will add something that I believe to be the crux of this issue. I sorta feel like it has been, is, and always will be part of the gambling game. As someone said it is in fact a skill. Cat and mouse if you will. I think just about anyone that gambles is well aware of it. Often both parties are playing the same ( game ), only one can be best at it. Early in this thread some were comparing it to robbery. In my mind someone who goes in and robs a 7-11, a little old lady with her ss check, whatever is on a TOTALLY different level than someone who is matched up and laying down somewhat. The two are not even on the same planet as far as I'm concerned. Matching up has always been a part of action, and as far as I know you should match up the best you can if you're putting your $$$ on the line. I fully understand not everyone will feel this way and that's fine. I will say though I do whole heartedly believe some people posting in this thread are playing the " holier than tho " card. What I mean by that is of those that gamble; let's say they match up with someone that they KNOW they can easily give the 6 ball to but that person only asks for the 8. I do not believe for one second these people are going to say no no you need at least the 6 my friend. I know this is not the exact same thing we are talking about but the principal IS exactly the same. I know we are on the Internet so most don't know me on a personal level but here is an example I'd like to share. So, I've already said that if on a challenge table for example I'm only going to play as good as I need to to win. With that being said, this has happened to me twice over the last several months - I have been in the casino and someone has dropped something out of their pocket without knowing it. Once was a couple hundred in cash, once was a cash out ticket for a little less than a hundred . Both times; without even thinking about it, I grabbed it and gave it right back to the person. So with both of these things at the opposite ends of the morality spectrum does this make me a morally corrupt person?
  
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05-11-2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Bond View Post
I do realize that the "bad guy" image always appeals to a certain number of people.
John Dillinger had movies made about him too. But at the end of the day, he was still a thief. A brilliant thief.

I do realize that playing for money is not inherently sleazy, neither is gambling - when the risks are clearly known or defined.

But the question isn't about popularity, wagering, or gambling. It's an opinion question on deception, in whatever form it comes.

Yes, people do it all the time. Oh well.
Would I do it? No.
It might be fun to play dress-up for a while, but at the end of the day, I'd still be just a pretender and a thief.

I will beat you on the table with my pool playing skills, not with better lies than you.
If you need lies to win, you need more practice.
Pretty much what I was saying. Mutual betting is one thing. Then a player that is "hustling" to get the best of it starts to get a little iffy. But I know that not all hustling is a he is trying to take my money so I am going to take his competition and many times the hustler is looking for an easy victim and will do super shady things to get the cash.

I think pool hustling is considered sleazy by most people even at the most basic level. Most certainly at the higher levels.
  
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  (#200)
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05-11-2016, 11:11 AM

The degree to which people can rationalize and justify their dishonesty is truly amazing. Misrepresentations for the purpose of financial gain are dishonest. No matter who else is doing it or to what extent. It is dishonest. No matter what kind of movie has been made about the people doing it. No matter how much the film-maker uses his art to make you root for the guy he wants you to root for even though you despise his every value.

Now you can rationalize that and justify it all you want but that doesn't change anything.

If that makes me naive and a flat, compared to all of you sharps, that is fine. Sharps tend to die alone and broke and flats tend to die surrounded by their loving family. Even if somewhere along the line the sharp takes the flat for a ride. Because in the end the flat is still a decent person and the sharp is --- well --- a sharp.
  
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05-11-2016, 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
On many challenge tables in a bar full of people, if you lose, you may not get back to the table for a LONG time. So yes, when I play on them I try to win every game. I won 16 games in a row once. It's best if there is only one table in the bar, because then after the players have waited a long time for their turn, you will most likely get as least one game out of them.

What youre saying is absolutely true and I get it but use this example. So you've been on the table for a little while. Next guy up is someone that you have already played and won and you were able to gauge his game pretty good. You can tell he is not a run out player. So back to present game, you break and make a ball. You have a shot a the 1 and you are pretty confident you will be out from there most of the time. So, instead of running out and scaring him and whoever else is watching you just play safe, rattle it, go for a combo on the nine or whatever . Yes there is a risk this guy MIGHT get out but it is a calculated risk and probably 9 out of 10 times this guy run 3,4, or 5 balls, get out of line and miss . So then when it's your turn back at the table and you get out and win. What I am about to say next is totally going to sound like an excuse just trying to validate my viewpoint but it's actually not because SOMETIMES this actually is the case.

So being that often a challenge table is only $5 or $10 action there are gonna be guys that don't mind losing and will continue playing just because they enjoy the action and are having a good time regardless of whether they are winning or losing since it's such a small amount of money. So if you take your foot off the gas a little and don't just straight demolish the guy he will have a much better time and actually enjoy himself. Also along these same lines he may have his girl with himy and if you are just bending this guy over game after game it may be very embarrassing for him with his girl there. Like I said, I know full well how this statement comes across but it actually does have some validity to it.
  
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  (#202)
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05-11-2016, 11:26 AM

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Originally Posted by BmoreMoney View Post
What youre saying is absolutely true and I get it but use this example. So you've been on the table for a little while. Next guy up is someone that you have already played and won and you were able to gauge his game pretty good. You can tell he is not a run out player. So back to present game, you break and make a ball. You have a shot a the 1 and you are pretty confident you will be out from there most of the time. So, instead of running out and scaring him and whoever else is watching you just play safe, rattle it, go for a combo on the nine or whatever . Yes there is a risk this guy MIGHT get out but it is a calculated risk and probably 9 out of 10 times this guy run 3,4, or 5 balls, get out of line and miss . So then when it's your turn back at the table and you get out and win. What I am about to say next is totally going to sound like an excuse just trying to validate my viewpoint but it's actually not because SOMETIMES this actually is the case.

So being that often a challenge table is only $5 or $10 action there are gonna be guys that don't mind losing and will continue playing just because they enjoy the action and are having a good time regardless of whether they are winning or losing since it's such a small amount of money. So if you take your foot off the gas a little and don't just straight demolish the guy he will have a much better time and actually enjoy himself. Also along these same lines he may have his girl with himy and if you are just bending this guy over game after game it may be very embarrassing for him with his girl there. Like I said, I know full well how this statement comes across but it actually does have some validity to it.
If the balls are laying where I "can" run out, I will always try to do so. Although, when not playing ball in hand rules, if there is a cluster I know I can't break out or more than one cluster, I "may" occasionally know that I'm going to miss by trying a shot where I will either breakup a troubled ball and/or leave the cue ball in a bad position for my opponent.

EDIT: I guess my point is, there are plenty of "natural" opportunities to not be able to run out and to give my opponent a chance to shoot, but hopefully for them not to run out.

Last edited by Get_A_Grip; 05-11-2016 at 11:28 AM.
  
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  (#203)
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05-11-2016, 11:29 AM

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Originally Posted by KissedOut View Post
The degree to which people can rationalize and justify their dishonesty is truly amazing. Misrepresentations for the purpose of financial gain are dishonest. No matter who else is doing it or to what extent. It is dishonest. No matter what kind of movie has been made about the people doing it. No matter how much the film-maker uses his art to make you root for the guy he wants you to root for even though you despise his every value.

Now you can rationalize that and justify it all you want but that doesn't change anything.

If that makes me naive and a flat, compared to all of you sharps, that is fine. Sharps tend to die alone and broke and flats tend to die surrounded by their loving family. Even if somewhere along the line the sharp takes the flat for a ride. Because in the end the flat is still a decent person and the sharp is --- well --- a sharp.
I think you're simplifying this situation a little too much.
LOSING your money doesn't make you a decent person.
Some of my nicest wins came from people hustling ME.

And I, for one, do not justify and rationalize my gambling habits....
....I've always liked the excitement and pressure of being in action...
...AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WITH PEOPLE THAT THINK THE SAME WAY.


Lionize your game.
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  (#204)
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Thumbs up 05-11-2016, 11:40 AM

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Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
I think you're simplifying this situation a little too much.
LOSING your money doesn't make you a decent person.
Some of my nicest wins came from people hustling ME.

And I, for one, do not justify and rationalize my gambling habits....
....I've always liked the excitement and pressure of being in action...
...AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN WITH PEOPLE THAT THINK THE SAME WAY.
Sleazy.
  
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05-11-2016, 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted by PoolChump View Post
Sleazy.
You seem to have an enthusiasm for brevity.
....try adding some common sense into your repertoire.


...and I need the six now


Lionize your game.
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  (#206)
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Lightbulb 05-11-2016, 11:48 AM

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Originally Posted by pt109 View Post
You seem to have an enthusiasm for brevity.
....try adding some common sense into your repertoire.


...and I need the six now
Pool hustling is sleazy. I believe that is common sense.
  
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  (#207)
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05-11-2016, 12:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
Well, the old adage is that you can't hustle an honest man. That any hustle is based in part on the greed of the mark, drawing him in.
Very true Colonel.
I won't ever be mistaken for a hustler.
But once I was playing a friend for $5 a game I believe.
HE offered to raise it to $20!
I agreed.
Hey I bought the UFC PPV that night so I got to recoup some$$!
  
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05-11-2016, 12:19 PM

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Originally Posted by PoolChump View Post
Pool hustling is sleazy. I believe that is common sense.
Ya know most of the general public that either doesn't play or plays very little use the term " hustler " for anyone they perceive as really good at pool. It's used generically and interchangeable with " pool shark " too. So to the general public the term " hustler " doesn't necessarily have a negative connotation.
  
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05-11-2016, 12:30 PM

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Originally Posted by BmoreMoney View Post
Can anyone else chime in and give thoughts to my challenge table example. I am going to say this upfront : If 10 people on here say they would just get up and play balls to the wall and try to absolutely crush every person that gets on the table I am calling BS on 9 of them!
I would, but I suck and would be lucky to win against half-way decent players even if playing my very best game, so that in itself doesn't tell you much.

Gideon
  
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05-11-2016, 12:31 PM

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Originally Posted by GideonF View Post
I would, but I suck and would be lucky to win against half-way decent players even if playing my very best game, so that in itself doesn't tell you much.

Gideon
I think Gideon is laying down trying to get more weight!!!! 😆
  
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