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Reload this Page Would consider this cheating by the tournament director?
View Poll Results: Is this Cheating or not
Yes Cheating 31 50.00%
No not Cheating 31 50.00%
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tonythetiger583
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06-14-2016, 09:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDeBank View Post
do you guys not understand that even B asks if P if hes conceding he has to break focus and concentration to address someone off the table.. so If P says no I wasn't conceding... Great! thanks for sharking me and making me come over and mess with this instead of winning the game and focusing on balls.

As soon as you see him break his cue, your game will be effected no matter what.

At least asking will clear stuff up.
  
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BmoreMoney
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06-14-2016, 10:00 PM

Yes it clearly seems like cheating to me. While no league expert, it seems to be widely know if you in fact break a cue down ( without getting authorization for a legitimate reason ) it is known to be a concession of the match??? This seems to be understood universally regardless of circumstances . That part seems very clear to me. The part that is not completely clear is the getting mad and shaking part. Sure, I absolutely have gotten mad enough about something and " shook " - no doubt, who hasnt? BUT, IF I got mad enough to " shake " it has always been with me having wrapped my hands around someone's neck " shaking " THEM LOLOL!!! Ive never gotten so mad; much less another league match that I had nothing bet on, to get upset enough to " shake " lol and I can't really understand that aspect of the story but yes - totally cheating as far as I can see. Once again, if someone was " shaking " this guy's head while their hands were wrapped around his neck - yeah I could see that lol! 😆
  
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  (#33)
rrick33
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06-15-2016, 05:40 AM

If it's not in the rules, it's not cheating; however, breaking your cue down in clear view of your opponent on the last inning, is a psychological move designed to get into your opponents head and potentially break his rhythm.

There are some who might consider it a form of sharking and if it were ruled that way MIGHT be consider against the rules.

On the other hand, getting into your opponents head is an integral component of any competitive sport so the problem lies between the interpretation of sharking as opposed to strategy and where you draw the line on what is acceptable and what is not.
  
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  (#34)
BmoreMoney
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06-15-2016, 05:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrick33 View Post
If it's not in the rules, it's not cheating; however, breaking your cue down in clear view of your opponent on the last inning, is a psychological move designed to get into your opponents head and potentially break his rhythm.

There are some who might consider it a form of sharking and if it were ruled that way MIGHT be consider against the rules.

On the other hand, getting into your opponents head is an integral component of any competitive sport so the problem lies between the interpretation of sharking as opposed to strategy and where you draw the line on what is acceptable and what is not.
Don't know specifically about the rule book, but I was always under the impression that was universally known as conceding the game ( set , match )
  
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  (#35)
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06-15-2016, 06:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastone371 View Post
Before player B went to shoot his last ball and 8 ball, while P was breaking down his cue, B should have asked P if he was conceding the game. The time to ask if an opponent is conceding is before you shoot, not after you lose, sorry. If it appears someone is giving me the game I double check before disturbing any balls, if he is in fact conceding I do not then shoot and see if I would have made remaining balls, I get the rack and balls out for next game. I am not condoning what P did in this case, far from it, but you always gotta be sure what your opponent means if you are not clear on something before proceeding, not after.
This ^^^^^^^^

If you keep shooting, its on you.


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  (#36)
rrick33
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06-15-2016, 01:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BmoreMoney View Post
Don't know specifically about the rule book, but I was always under the impression that was universally known as conceding the game ( set , match )
I have always considered the rule book to be the definitive resource when there are disputes. What you might consider "Universal" may not be viewed the same by others.
Like you, I have always considered it an act of concession but if my opponent disputed my claim I would have to defer to the rules.

My opinion against someone with a contrary option does not afford me the higher ground. The rules always prevail.

If it were truly universal.....it would be a rule and there would be no dispute....in much the same way we recognize that if our opponent scratches, his inning has ended...It's a rule.

Keep in mind, there is no universal rule book regarding pool. Every league has their own rules.

Last edited by rrick33; 06-15-2016 at 01:41 PM.
  
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  (#37)
Get_A_Grip
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06-15-2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastone371 View Post
Before player B went to shoot his last ball and 8 ball, while P was breaking down his cue, B should have asked P if he was conceding the game. The time to ask if an opponent is conceding is before you shoot, not after you lose, sorry. If it appears someone is giving me the game I double check before disturbing any balls, if he is in fact conceding I do not then shoot and see if I would have made remaining balls, I get the rack and balls out for next game. I am not condoning what P did in this case, far from it, but you always gotta be sure what your opponent means if you are not clear on something before proceeding, not after.
I agree with this. The player must ask if the opponent is conceding before they shoot. I observed this happen at the WI State 8-ball Tournament. The captain of my team unscrewed his cue and hung onto both halves after he missed and when my captain assumed that his opponent would run out (although he had quite a few balls left).

The opponent noticed this, and basically stopped and insisted that my captain forfeited by unscrewing. They ended up getting a ref and the ref confirmed that it was not a loss. His opponent then finished running the rest of his balls.

(I still don't know why in the world my captain unscrewed his cue. Nobody ever asked him, but this was the furthest he ever got in the tournament in singles, so he may well of been trying to pull a sharking move).
  
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  (#38)
Bob Jewett
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06-15-2016, 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
... The opponent noticed this, and basically stopped and insisted that my captain forfeited by unscrewing. They ended up getting a ref and the ref confirmed that it was not a loss. ...
I wonder if they were going by a written set of rules or the ref was winging it. Here is the applicable WSR:
1.11 Concession
If a player concedes, he loses the match. For example, if a player unscrews his jointed playing cue stick while the opponent is at the table and during the opponent’s decisive rack of a match, it will be considered a concession of the match.


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  (#39)
book collector
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06-15-2016, 07:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyA View Post
Screaming or making obscene gestures at your opponent when they are getting ready to shoot their shot, isn't in those rules either.

JoeyA
This could open a real can of worms, I have met a few players, who, if given half a go ahead, would get behind you on your last shot, and tell you if you make the ball, they will murder your entire family.
Anything to get the win!
Where are all those shark proof guys?
Fade that one, from some broke down meth head .
  
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  (#40)
BmoreMoney
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06-15-2016, 11:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by book collector View Post
This could open a real can of worms, I have met a few players, who, if given half a go ahead, would get behind you on your last shot, and tell you if you make the ball, they will murder your entire family.
Anything to get the win!
Where are all those shark proof guys?
Fade that one, from some broke down meth head .
Well # 1 ya shouldn't be playing a meth head , not a good gamble. Second, make sure your piece is out back and not in front when you shoot your shot. Better yet, be known that that would not be any kinda good idear on their part and problem solved.
  
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  (#41)
BmoreMoney
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06-15-2016, 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrick33 View Post
I have always considered the rule book to be the definitive resource when there are disputes. What you might consider "Universal" may not be viewed the same by others.
Like you, I have always considered it an act of concession but if my opponent disputed my claim I would have to defer to the rules.

My opinion against someone with a contrary option does not afford me the higher ground. The rules always prevail.

If it were truly universal.....it would be a rule and there would be no dispute....in much the same way we recognize that if our opponent scratches, his inning has ended...It's a rule.

Keep in mind, there is no universal rule book regarding pool. Every league has their own rules.
Well, I ain't no tournament guy, I ain't no league guy, I'm an action guy. I can assure you in most places if someone unscrews while you go to shoot it is concession. If that is contested, there WILL BE A FIGHT. It's not in any rule book, it's understood - it's code.
  
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BmoreMoney
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06-15-2016, 11:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by book collector View Post
This could open a real can of worms, I have met a few players, who, if given half a go ahead, would get behind you on your last shot, and tell you if you make the ball, they will murder your entire family.
Anything to get the win!
Where are all those shark proof guys?
Fade that one, from some broke down meth head .
Dude, where/who do you play ?
NOBODY with even one functional brain cell would EVER say that.
If someone where to say that they would be put down immediately , BEFORE any shot on a 9 bsll. Do you realize what you are saying or are u trying to make a joke ? That would NEVER happen more than once, I can assure you.
  
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  (#43)
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06-16-2016, 12:09 AM

OFFICIAL RULES OF CUESPORTS INTERNATIONAL
1-43 Concession of Game
1. You must not concede any game at any time for any reason. “Concede” means that, as a result of any verbal or non-verbal action, you lead your opponent to believe that you are awarding them the game before its normal conclusion on the table. Before a game has ended, you must refrain from making any statements such as “good game”, etc., or any other verbal inference that the game is over or that your opponent is certain or likely to win. You must also refrain from any similar non-verbal action, such as putting away your cue or accessory items, beginning to mark a score sheet, changing clothes, retrieving or juggling coins or tokens, etc. Whether or not you have conceded a game is determined solely by the referee’s judgment.
2. If you concede a game, in addition to losing that game you will receive a mandatory warning against further concessions. A second violation results in the loss of the conceded game and an additional deduction of one game from your score (if you have zero games, your score would be "minus one game") and a final mandatory warning. A third violation results in loss of match. In team play, any member of the team may commit the second or third violations. (AR p. 98)
3. In the absence of any act by your opponent judged to be a concession under Rule 1-43-1, you must not assume that your opponent has conceded the game. If you disturb the position of the table in such a situation, then you are charged with a concession violation. (AR p. 98)
4. If you disturb the position of the table in an act that presumes the game is over before it is actually over, such as gathering balls together to rack the next game, you lose the game. (AR p. 98)

1-44 Concession of Match
When your opponent is on the hill, if you make a motion to unscrew your playing cue during your opponent's inning you lose the match. (AR p. 99)

Last edited by calcwby4u; 06-16-2016 at 12:19 AM. Reason: clear language in prior Rule Number and include punctuation.
  
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  (#44)
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06-16-2016, 01:17 AM

This is definitely a shady move to distract the opponent. I can see how some players could get irritated by this, it wouldn't influence me though.

I also have a nice story about a tournament director who also played in the tournament:

The director was playing against a player who is not that good, so, his opponent wanted to break the balls and accidentally hit the cue ball twice, first a bit and then the break. Like, you touch the cue ball a little but then you proceed to break really fast like a reflex.

This is obviously a foul, but the tournament director, instead of taking the foul he started a huge argument, involving other players from other tables and making an atmosphere in the pool hall that didn't feel like there was a tournament going on.
His argument was that his opponent tried to cheat because he proceeded to break after touching the cueball, so he wanted to disqualify him.

After a long discussion, the tournament director decided to just take the foul (because everyone told him to do so) and he won against the guy (that guy was never a threat)

Because of that discussion, other players had to pause their matches and lost concentration.

I don't think tournament directors should be playing in the tournament.
  
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  (#45)
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06-16-2016, 06:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rin View Post
.



I don't think tournament directors should be playing in the tournament.

The problem is that for most small events you may not have a tournament at all. I don't think there is long line up of people looking to run a tournament for the very few bucks they get.

Also, both Zuglan and Oscar seem to be able to play and run the events, and I haven't heard any complaints about them. Maybe it's just the character of the TD that is in issue.


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