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(((Satori)))
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Does a touch of outside... - 09-23-2015, 07:38 PM

Does a touch of outside prevent skids better?
  
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09-23-2015, 07:43 PM

That is what a lot of people claim.
  
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09-23-2015, 07:52 PM

I don't think it prevents skids, but it does counteract contact throw, so maybe the extreme contact throw of a skid will not be as extreme with outside english.
  
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09-23-2015, 08:12 PM

I think it does.


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09-23-2015, 08:28 PM

It depends, if you are aiming correctly and put too much english, if skid is present you will overcut. If you put just the gearing english needed, there will be no skid (the object ball will 'feel' the cueball as a dead straight in shot).
  
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09-23-2015, 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
Does a touch of outside prevent skids better?
In my experience, yes indeed.


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09-23-2015, 09:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
Does a touch of outside prevent skids better?
It prevents them completely if it's just the right amount - it's called "gearing" English, where the CB "rolls" across the OB like a tire on pavement, with no rubbing or friction between the surfaces.

There's even an easy way to apply just the right amount of gearing English for any cut angle at any speed - offset the tip 2/5 (40%) of the distance from center ball to the point opposite the CB/OB contact point.

The same measurement works perfectly for "gearing" running English on rails when kicking (to get equal angle rebounds - see the diagram below) and on the table surface for instant "natural roll" without any sliding (by hitting 2/5 of the distance from the CB's equator to it's top - i.e., 80% of maximum follow).

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chgo

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Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 09-23-2015 at 09:17 PM.
  
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09-23-2015, 09:13 PM

Sometimes on a straight in shot where I am rolling the cue ball, I've seen it climb up on the object ball. I guess that would also be a skid.
  
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09-23-2015, 09:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyP View Post
Sometimes on a straight in shot where I am rolling the cue ball, I've seen it climb up on the object ball. I guess that would also be a skid.
I think so - a vertical skid caused by the same thing: unusually high "gearing" friction between the balls, probably due to chalk. I think the CB climbs up on the OB on a lot of skids - the dreaded "thud" sound of many skids is the sound of the CB coming back down on the table.

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Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 09-23-2015 at 09:23 PM.
  
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09-23-2015, 09:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masayoshi View Post
I don't think it prevents skids, but it does counteract contact throw...
I agree with this, if by skid we mean extreme friction usually caused by chalk on the balls.
  
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09-23-2015, 09:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masayoshi View Post
I don't think it prevents skids, but it does counteract contact throw, so maybe the extreme contact throw of a skid will not be as extreme with outside english.
I think skids are just extreme amounts of contact throw. Normal amounts of contact throw slow the CB/OB rubbing speed; extreme contact throw can stop the rubbing so the surfaces stick together momentarily.

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09-24-2015, 01:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masayoshi View Post
I don't think it prevents skids, but it does counteract contact throw, so maybe the extreme contact throw of a skid will not be as extreme with outside english.
Yes, gearing OE cancels out throw skids. But if the CB has follow or draw, skids can occur that either decrease the amount of follow achieved or decrease the amount of draw. Mostly on softish shots though.

But be careful about how much OE you use. A touch too much and you can throw the OB off it's path by a couple of inches per yard.

I generally go by about 1/4 rule, rather than 2/5ths, as we have a tendency to aim to overcut a little anyway as rolling pots and stun shots throw the OB thick naturally, and we tend to adapt to that in our aiming.

One half of a ball is about 28.5mm. So, on a 3/4 ball, our contact is about 7mm off center. 40% of this is about 3mm tip offset for gearing. I'd use about 2mm offset instead, following the 1/4 rule.

For a 1/2 ball, 14mm. 40% = 5.6mm (half tip), 25% = 3.5mm 1/4 tip approx.

80 degree cut (fine) approx 24mm offset from center CB. 40% = 10mm almost a tip. 25% = 6mm (half tip).

Note that what I'm calling 1 tip, is on the scale where 1.5 tips is maximum offset. Others use 3 tips as maximum offset.

So as a general rule of thumb, as cut angle moves from straight to extreme cut, you can achieve gearing by correlating that angle on a scale of zero offset to about 1/2 maximum tip offset.

And keep in mind most shots are fuller than the 1/2 ball cut, so most gearing english shots fall between 1 and 4 mm tip offset.

Excuse the rough math. Just a guide to help people get a grasp of how much tip offset they may need to gear shots.

Colin


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Gearing OE for 3/4 ball medium speed pot.
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Gearing OE for 3/4 ball medium speed pot. - 09-24-2015, 01:19 AM

Here is a throw chart I made for a 3/4 ball cut right to left played at medium speed.

The left chart is compared to line of centers aiming, the chart on the right is for a medium speed natural roll (similar to firm stun shot throw) which needs to be aligned for a slight overcut.

The black lines indicate effective gearing english, where there is zero relative throw left or right of the aim line.


Last edited by Colin Colenso; 09-24-2015 at 01:22 AM.
  
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09-24-2015, 03:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by (((Satori))) View Post
Does a touch of outside prevent skids better?
I have found that regular bowel movements are the best way to prevent skids.


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09-24-2015, 03:47 AM

Of course it does, you're rolling across the OB rather than rubbing across it.

Missing the shot because of english...... any english, is an entirely different subject.


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