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7ft vs 9ft Stats - 07-23-2016, 02:40 AM

All stats provided courtesy of AtLarge.
SBE Stats
Us Open 10 Ball Stats

As most of you know I have been pretty vocal about my disdain for professionals playing on 7' tables. That when it comes to the best players, it's too easy for them. Below are comparisons from the 2016 Super Billiards Expo (9' tables) and the recently finished 2016 US Open 10 Ball (7' tables). Both have similar sample sizes and similar field strengths.

Whether or not you actually enjoy watching pros play on 7' tables, I think it's pretty clear that it is much easier for them.




SBE
Break-and-run games: The 45 break-and-run games represented 18% of all 253 games, 36% of the 125 games won by the breaker, and 35% of the 128 games in which the break was successful (made a ball and didn't foul).

US Open 10 Ball
Break-and-run games: The 89 break-and-run games represented 38% of all 232 games, 64% of the 138 games won by the breaker, and 49% of the 183 games in which the break was successful (made a ball and didn't foul).


SBE
42% (105 of 253) of the games ended in one inning – 18% (45) won by the breaker (B&R) and 24% (60) won by the non-breaker. 15% (37 of 253) of the games lasted 4 or more innings.

33% (84 of 253) of the games were run out by the player who was at the table following the break.

• The player who made the first ball after the break:
- Won the game in that same inning 48% of the time (122 of 253)

US Open 10 Ball
62% (143 of 232) of the games ended in one inning – 38% (89) won by the breaker (B&R) and 23% (54) won by the non-breaker. 8% (18 of 232) of the games lasted 4 or more innings.

48% (112 of 232) of the games were run out by the player who was at the table following the break.

• The player who made the first ball after the break:
- Won the game in that same inning 70% of the time (162 of 232)
  
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07-23-2016, 04:58 AM

Top pros playing on valleys and even 7ft diamonds is just gross


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07-23-2016, 05:25 AM

The only way I'll watch a pro 7ft match is if the table has 3" pockets.

Also, after the break, the player shooting has to say where every ball is going to be pocketed before his first shot(after the break)! He/she misses,,,, BIH for incoming player,,,, no safes

I've never been a fan of 7fters! Yrs ago when I played APA, I made it to an 8 in 9-ball. I was a high B low A and people thought I was sandbagging a tad so I didn't get to 9! I never sandbagged, I just kept losing in 7ft tables(which God awful cloth, balls, and rolls)

My captain always used to laugh at me! I had a 97% win rate on 9fters and a 90% lose rate on anything other than 9fters!

One time somebody wanted to gamble with me on 7-8fter(I forgot) and he wanted weight! I told him we play even on these tables. He said no way because I was waaaaaaayyyyy better than he was. Not on these tables I replied! We play even here or you get 2 to 7 with the wild 8 on any 9fter!

The only person who really understood that was my captain. And to this day, I still don't understand why I play so horrible on 7's!
  
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07-23-2016, 10:31 AM

I agree, 7ft tables are just too easy for pros. But if they can't overcome the added expense of bringing in the big tables, 7ft will just have to do.

Rodney vs Busty, 10b race to 21 on a 7ft diamond?? I really hope its not on a 7ft. The flyer left that small detail out.
  
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07-23-2016, 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gxman View Post
I agree, 7ft tables are just too easy for pros. But if they can't overcome the added expense of bringing in the big tables, 7ft will just have to do.

Rodney vs Busty, 10b race to 21 on a 7ft diamond?? I really hope its not on a 7ft. The flyer left that small detail out.
All challenge matches are on the 7 footers
  
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07-23-2016, 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gxman View Post



Rodney vs Busty, 10b race to 21 on a 7ft diamond?? I really hope its not on a 7ft. The flyer left that small detail out.

7-ft. for sure. I don't think they have any 9-footers there.
  
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07-23-2016, 11:26 AM

It's like pro tennis players on a pickleball court or professional golfers playing mini golf.
  
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07-23-2016, 11:36 AM

All good proof stats.
I think the one that shows the player making the first ball after the break getting out in 1inning, is the most telling.


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Last edited by 9andout; 07-23-2016 at 11:38 AM.
  
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07-23-2016, 12:15 PM

Interesting stats, I understand the argument of "more congestion" and it is definitely a different style of play, i.e. bumping balls more often for position, less cue ball travel, which I don't mind watching due to educational purposes. But as for top level professionals competing for THE US open? It's definitely too easy...for their caliber for play.

A full length table shot, shooting close to off the rail on a 7' table has no where near the amount of difficulty that it has on a 9'. I noticed during the US 10 ball players generally opted not to play safe on shots where had it been a 9' table they most definitely would have, due to distance and difficulty of their opponent making a good hit/kicking safe in return.

It's comparable to professional golfers playing the US open on a 9 hole, walking only, rinky dink municipal course. All they'd have to do is hit a wedge off the tee and a wedge to the green lol. The PGA makes the US open as difficult playing conditions as possible to make it a challenge. Long holes(especially par 3's), narrow fairways, thick ass rough, DEEP bunkers, lightning fast, hard, greens with difficult pin locations. It's challenging for the best of the best and it's fun to watch.

Pool needs to do the same thing, hell might as well make them 10' tables with 4" pockets. Last night Jay and whomever else was commentating kept mentioning that they hadn't seen the bridge used once? That immediately takes away a degree of difficulty(reaching/using a bridge). It would be way more enjoyable to watch imo, less run outs, much more precision, and it would make great shot even that much greater imo. Anyway enough ramble, I really don't know why I felt compelled to type that much
  
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07-23-2016, 01:25 PM

I don't know what the viability of 7 foot competition is. I get the feeling that more people may be willing to play and but I can't imagine 7 foot tables alone attracts more ppv buys. But I don't have the numbers in front of me so I can only guess.

But I must say I was surprised at the sudden shift to professional competition to the smaller tables. It feels like not too long ago everyone was discussing moving to 4-4.25inch pockets as the norm. I never expected the pendulum to swing in the opposite direction.

I used to enjoy the USBTC, it was a fun change in pace. But much like I enjoy the snooker shootout once a year, or 6 red snooker championship, I would never want to see it more than once or twice a year.


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07-23-2016, 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
All stats provided courtesy of AtLarge.
SBE Stats
Us Open 10 Ball Stats

As most of you know I have been pretty vocal about my disdain for professionals playing on 7' tables. That when it comes to the best players, it's too easy for them. Below are comparisons from the 2016 Super Billiards Expo (9' tables) and the recently finished 2016 US Open 10 Ball (7' tables). Both have similar sample sizes and similar field strengths.

Whether or not you actually enjoy watching pros play on 7' tables, I think it's pretty clear that it is much easier for them.




SBE
Break-and-run games: The 45 break-and-run games represented 18% of all 253 games, 36% of the 125 games won by the breaker, and 35% of the 128 games in which the break was successful (made a ball and didn't foul).

US Open 10 Ball
Break-and-run games: The 89 break-and-run games represented 38% of all 232 games, 64% of the 138 games won by the breaker, and 49% of the 183 games in which the break was successful (made a ball and didn't foul).


SBE
42% (105 of 253) of the games ended in one inning 18% (45) won by the breaker (B&R) and 24% (60) won by the non-breaker. 15% (37 of 253) of the games lasted 4 or more innings.

33% (84 of 253) of the games were run out by the player who was at the table following the break.

The player who made the first ball after the break:
- Won the game in that same inning 48% of the time (122 of 253)

US Open 10 Ball
62% (143 of 232) of the games ended in one inning 38% (89) won by the breaker (B&R) and 23% (54) won by the non-breaker. 8% (18 of 232) of the games lasted 4 or more innings.

48% (112 of 232) of the games were run out by the player who was at the table following the break.

The player who made the first ball after the break:
- Won the game in that same inning 70% of the time (162 of 232)
Most barbox players I know run out way more than that. Just ask them.


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07-23-2016, 01:42 PM

Personally I rather watch pros on the baby tables, which is what i mainly play on. I get to learn little more than I would watching them play on the big boy table. A low percentage shot on the big boy table turns into a safety most times. Hardly see banks on the big boy table. Where they are more likely to try on the baby table. Sure the run outs or higher but not just because its an easier table but because they may have went for a bank or tough shot where they would have played a safe on the tougher table. Nothing wrong with defense but i like seeing them go for tougher shots.
  
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07-23-2016, 05:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jburkm002 View Post
Personally I rather watch pros on the baby tables, which is what i mainly play on. I get to learn little more than I would watching them play on the big boy table. A low percentage shot on the big boy table turns into a safety most times. Hardly see banks on the big boy table. Where they are more likely to try on the baby table. Sure the run outs or higher but not just because its an easier table but because they may have went for a bank or tough shot where they would have played a safe on the tougher table. Nothing wrong with defense but i like seeing them go for tougher shots.
Tougher shots on a 7'??
Pleeease!
  
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07-24-2016, 12:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeiberLvr View Post
All stats provided courtesy of AtLarge.
SBE Stats
Us Open 10 Ball Stats ...
You beat me to it. I was going to do some comparisons after both US Open events are over.

But one key factor distorts the comparisons you have made here. That is the fact that a wooden triangle was used to rack the balls at the SBE, whereas the Magic Rack was used in the US Open 10-Ball.

When the Magic Rack (or another racking template) is used, the percentage of successful breaks (making at least one ball and not fouling) goes up, sometimes substantially. That raises the opportunities for break-and-run games, which raises the actual percentage of B&R games and several of the other percentages.

Here's a comparison for the streamed matches of 10-Ball events that all used racking templates. To get higher counts, I combined two events on 7-footers and 2 events on 9-footers. The field strength (streamed matches only) was high for all 4 events.

A = 2015 and 2016 US Open 10-Ball Championships, combined (7-footers)
B = 2015 Accu-Stats "Make It Happen" Invitational 10-Ball event and 2014 CSI Invitational 10-Ball Championship, combined (9-footers)

Made at least one ball on the break and did not foul:
A -- 75% (392 of 523)
B -- 71% (394 of 553)

Breaker won the game:
A -- 58% (305 of 523)
B -- 56% (311 of 553)

Break-and-run games:
A -- 34% (178 of 523)
B -- 28% (154 of 553)

Break-and-run games on successful breaks:
A -- 45% (178 of 392)
B -- 39% (154 of 394)

Run-outs by non-breaker after fouled or dry breaks:
A -- 41% (54 of 131)
B -- 38% (60 of 159)

Total run-outs by player at table after the break;
A -- 44% (232 of 523)
B -- 39% (214 of 553)

And here's a similar comparison of results I did last year for 8-Ball matches played on 7-footers versus 9-footers: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...75&postcount=3

So when the conditions are quite similar other than table size, the results may be a bit closer than many people would expect.
  
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07-24-2016, 03:19 AM

According to Fargo Rate, 9' tables and 7' tables are the same.

  
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