Guess who I get to take under my wing this weekend?

rackmsuckr said:

Hi, I'm Yu Ram Cha. It's pronounced YOU + DOM .

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Can anybody answer this question for me. Im trying to understand 'names' of non americans.

I figured out the Last Name First thing for most Asian countries finally but on another point, if her name is pronounced DOM, why isnt it spelled that way when its translated to English?

Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

Nostroke said:

Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

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edit... we+are+dom

SoundWaves said:

edit... we+are+dom

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:yikes: That's hilarious!:rotflmao1: :duck:

rackmsuckr said:

I look out for her and she teaches me how to run a rack, lol.

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This is from her mySpace page, written when she was 19. She is now 21. We are so going to have so much fun!

Hi, I'm Yu Ram Cha. It's pronounced YOU + DOM . I started playing pool when I was 13 years old. I'm 19 years old now and I'm a professional player in Korea. This has been a big year for me because I finished #1 on Tour in Korea, won my first major international championship, and now coming to USA for first time in my life! Things to know about me is....first my english is not great, and I am trying to learn everyday; winning makes me happy; I am a Christian and my two best memories in life are getting closer to God and coming to America! If you ever meet me, please be patient with my english...and maybe we can shoot a game of pool

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Don't understand the take under the wing part??????

rackmsuckr said:

I look out for her and she teaches me how to run a rack, lol.

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This is from her mySpace page, written when she was 19. She is now 21. We are so going to have so much fun!

Hi, I'm Yu Ram Cha. It's pronounced YOU + DOM . I started playing pool when I was 13 years old. I'm 19 years old now and I'm a professional player in Korea. This has been a big year for me because I finished #1 on Tour in Korea, won my first major international championship, and now coming to USA for first time in my life! Things to know about me is....first my english is not great, and I am trying to learn everyday; winning makes me happy; I am a Christian and my two best memories in life are getting closer to God and coming to America! If you ever meet me, please be patient with my english...and maybe we can shoot a game of pool

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Pretty cool! The first thing that pops into my mind is that guitar playing daughter of yours corrupting her, or maybe vise versa?

Where is this tournament? Will she be in Washington?

Nostroke said:

Can anybody answer this question for me. Im trying to understand 'names' of non americans.

I figured out the Last Name First thing for most Asian countries finally but on another point, if her name is pronounced DOM, why isnt it spelled that way when its translated to English?

Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

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The method most commonly used to bring Chinese into English is called Pinyin, pronounced like 'peenyeen' in English. After many (possibly hundreds?) of years attempting to develop such a system, Pinyin has finally been agreed upon by most nerds involved as the best way to phonetically Anglicize spoken Chinese, and to write the language in a way that doesn't necessitate us learning a character-based system to be able to convey Chinese in written form.

It really doesn't take too much study before you can read it and know how to pronounce something out loud from it, but that is of course not the same thing as pronouncing words perfectly (as you've seen is the case in trying to pronounce Yu Ram Cha's name). That is to say, despite Pinyin being a phonetic system, some sounds are just not intuitive to English speakers, just as speakers of many Asian languages commonly have trouble with the sounds from our language that flat-out don't exist in theirs.

Anyway, for the Pinyin letter 'r' ... reach your tongue up and as far back towards your tonsils as it will go in your mouth. Now put it forward 'til it reaches the back of your front-upper teeth. Calculate the midpoint of the two, put your tongue there, and move it forward and down while aspirating a blend of the sounds 'd', 'r', and 'zh'.

Yeah. That's why she just says to pronounce it 'DOM'.

Wait, isn't she Korean?

Anyway, same principles apply.

Nostroke said:

Can anybody answer this question for me. Im trying to understand 'names' of non americans.

I figured out the Last Name First thing for most Asian countries finally but on another point, if her name is pronounced DOM, why isnt it spelled that way when its translated to English?

Pretty sure Im gonna look dumb here but wth, it aint the first time. Anyone?

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It'd be easier to hear me on this one Dave. But, I'll try.

Yu Ram.

Pretty much every where else in the world except for English speaking countries, the letter "A" is pronounced something very close to "ah." I'd like to say "a" as in father, but you being from NYC, and I being from Western Mass will say "ah" completely different. Just like Schon Cues. Schon as in "hot".

So, that's the "A" in Ram. Ask any Spanish speaker how they pronouce an "A" and it's the same thing.

The "R" is trickier. The letters L and R are "liquid" consanants in English. BUt, there is only one liquid consonant in many of the Asian languages. Even in the original Baybayin in the Philippines, there was only one. With the Spanish influence, there are now both L's and R's. But in Chinese, Japanese, and presumably Korean, there would only be one. This is why you'll hear many Asians who don't speak much English use R's instead of L's and vice versa.

That being said, when I took a Japanese class (which is where I got the above information plus Linguistics 101 in college), the teacher when she made the liquid sound would trill her tongue (yeah, it was pretty sexy) such that the sound of that liquid consonant (Ra, Re, Ri, Ro, Ru) had a hint of a "D" sound trilled with an "R" sound. She never realized it, so that could be true for many native speakers But, anyway, I can imagine hearing "Yu Ram" as You Dom with the "D" being a trilled liquid consonant..{edit: to be very clear, this is not a trilled R sound like Spanish. It's something hard to describe, but the linguistics students would call it a 'postalveolar flap' with some speakers using a popping of the tongue very slightly such that a hint of D is heard between the L and R sounds}

IMO, it is the English that has it wrong, not vice versa. Phoenetically speaking. For example, your name would be pronounced Dah Vay or Dah Veh if the speaker didn't know how to pronounce Dave.

Fred <~~~ linguistically speaking

rackmsuckr said:

Thank you Home Brewer and Fred for the explanation. It sounds like (no pun intended) that it is very close to Spanish, where you roll your R's and the A sounds like Ah.

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Not nearly as heavy like the rolled Rs in the Euro languages, but it's a similar tongue mechanism that makes just a hint of a D sound.

Fred

Cornerman said:

It'd be easier to hear me on this one Dave. But, I'll try.

Yu Ram.

Pretty much every where else in the world except for English speaking countries, the letter "A" is pronounced something very close to "ah." I'd like to say "a" as in father, but you being from NYC, and I being from Western Mass will say "ah" completely different. Just like Schon Cues. Schon as in "hot".

So, that's the "A" in Ram. Ask any Spanish speaker how they pronouce an "A" and it's the same thing.

The "R" is trickier. The letters L and R are "liquid" consanants in English. BUt, there is only one liquid consonant in many of the Asian languages. Even in the original Baybayin in the Philippines, there was only one. With the Spanish influence, there are now both L's and R's. But in Chinese, Japanese, and presumably Korean, there would only be one. This is why you'll hear many Asians who don't speak much English use R's instead of L's and vice versa.

That being said, when I took a Japanese class (which is where I got the above information plus Linguistics 101 in college), the teacher when she made the liquid sound would trill her tongue (yeah, it was pretty sexy) such that the sound of that liquid consonant (Ra, Re, Ri, Ro, Ru) had a hint of a "D" sound trilled with an "R" sound. She never realized it, so that could be true for many native speakers. But, anyway, I can imagine hearing "Yu Ram" as You Dom with the "D" being a trilled liquid consonant.

IMO, it is the English that has it wrong, not vice versa. Phoenetically speaking. For example, your name would be pronounced Dah Vay or Dah Veh if the speaker didn't know how to pronounce Dave.

Fred <~~~ linguistically speaking

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Thanks Fred but i m still struggling. I dont think there is a letter for letter exchange between the two languages correct? E.G. I mean Chinese doesnt even have an alphabet perod. SO my queston is-Why does Yu Ram Cha choose to spell it with an R which if my 'no letter for letter' theory is corect was her choice seeing as she knows and has said it is pronounced Dom.

Take Ga Young-the Ga is pronouned by those with a Korean background as if the G has a bit of 'K' in it. She had to choose an English letter however and she uses one (G) that fits the best. We dont have a letter that is half G and half K so the G has to do but Yu Ram does have a letter 'D' that pronounces her name just like she wants it-Why not use it?

I dont want anyone to think this is about YRC-This is about me trying to understand 'languages' a litttle better. Thanks.

Nostroke said:

Thanks Fred but i m still struggling. I dont think there is a letter for letter exchange between the two languages correct? E.G. I mean Chinese doesnt even have an alphabet perod. SO my queston is-Why does Yu Ram Cha choose to spell it with an R which if my 'no letter for letter' theory is corect was her choice seeing as she knows and has said it is pronounced Dom.

Take Ga Young-the Ga is pronouned by those with a Korean background as if the G has a bit of 'K' in it. She had to choose an English letter however and she uses one (G) that fits the best. We dont have a letter that is half G and half K so the G has to do but Yu Ram does have a letter 'D' that pronounces her name just like she wants it-Why not use it?

I dont want anyone to think this is about YRC-This is about me trying to understand 'languages' a litttle better. Thanks.

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Nostroke,

Fred's explanation is only sorta, kinda right, but it does sound very authoritative.
The best explanation is that some languages like Korean or Chinese for examp[le, just don't translate well into English. FWIW, I believe that a large portion of the Korean vocabulary was taken from Chinese. There just isn't a way to phonetically transpose words without losing inflections. In Korean (like Chinese), sometimes the "R" isn't a hard, defined "R". It's not trilled either. The best attempt at explaining it is that it is a soft, partial "R".

It kinda reminds my of the Olympic badminton player from China named "Xie". It's not "see" or "tsie" or "sigh"...it's "sheeyea".


Eric >no habla

Nostroke said:

Take Ga Young-the Ga is pronouned by those with a Korean background as if the G has a bit of 'K' in it. She had to choose an English letter however and she uses one (G) that fits the best. We dont have a letter that is half G and half K so the G has to do but Yu Ram does have a letter 'D' that pronounces her name just like she wants it-Why not use it?

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Because it's not quite a D. It's an L and R, with just a hint of D in the background. Some people will hear more of the D. Some people who know the sound of that liquid consonant will hear it and only it. Some people will only hear the R.

As I said, hearing it would be a hell of a lot easier than me explaining. it.

I dont want anyone to think this is about YRC-This is about me trying to understand 'languages' a litttle better. Thanks.

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I think the post on Pinyin probably answers to that. It's simply a matter of phoenetics. And one person's phoenetics are slightly different than the next. Someone came up with a "best letter for letter" in pinyin But, also, when it came to it, she (Yu Ram) legitimately had 3 letters to choose from: L, R or D for her name. I don't know how many Japanese or Koreans ever choose D. She may have had it written down as Ram long before she realized it sounded like "Dom" to anyone else. Someone probably said to her that it sounded like "Dom." Someone else might say that it sounds like "Rom."

Similar to your example, even words that have come to the US that are Chinese, Korean, or Japanese are simply spelled differently depending on where they came from and where they landed. For example, you'll see Chinese Kung Fu written as Gung Foo. Sichuan vs. Szechuan. Li vs. Lee.

If you take a Linguistics class or even a Classical class on the migration of people, say, in Europe (the study of Indo-European languages and its development and modifications), you'll see how some words like the name of Zeus and the word Pater (father) has changed to Jupitar in the Roman to Greek translation. Nearly none of the letters are the same as far as English speakers are concerned, but phoenetic study-wise, its clear they are the same.

It's really that simple. Try having your names phoenetically changed over to Korean or Japanese. They have to add a letter that doesn't really exist in your name to get it close. Then you'll have to say, "it's really pronounced like Davee, not Daveye." And then someone on their end will be asking how's come you didn't just translate it to something closer!!

Fred <~~~ okay, Linguistics class is nearly over.

Eric. said:

Nostroke,

Fred's explanation is only sorta, kinda right, but it does sound very authoritative.

Eric >no habla

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Oh come on!!! I was slightly better than "sorta right!"

Fred <~~~ laymanishly right?

Cornerman said:

She may have had it written down as Ram long before she realized it sounded like "Dom" to anyone else. Someone probably said to her that it sounded like "Dom." Someone else might say that it sounds like "Rom."

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Now we are getting somewhere- that makes sense. thanks Fred

and thanks for your work on TAR- I enjoyed the MD shootout tremendously.

Cornerman said:

Oh come on!!! I was slightly better than "sorta right!"

Fred <~~~ laymanishly right?

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As close as a "foul tip" in Baseball.


Eric