Support for Fractional Aiming

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dividing the object ball into 1/8 ball increments for aiming gives us 5 distinct aiming points on the object ball to aim the center of the cue ball to cover, at most, the first 27 degrees (from straight in to half ball.) The half ball aim, which is 30 degrees, when comparing it to a straight shot on the same object ball in the same position, is only 27 degrees away from the straight in shot. The reason for this is that the angles compress in comparison to one another when the CB and OB positions don't change. Only the ghost ball moves. In this case, a 4/8 (half ball) aim is about 27 degrees away from 8/8 (full ball) aim.

And the angles further compress as the CB and OB get closer to one another. For example, a 6" distance between CB and OB yields a more compressed array of available angles than a 36" array.

What I wanted to show here is just how many shots are covered by 1/8 ball fractions. Obviously, the further the OB gets from the pocket, the more spread out the 1/8 ball shots become. I'm not suggesting that adjustments are not neccessary, but I am suggesting that very little adjustment is necessary when the OB is within about 3 diamonds from the pocket.
And when the CB is close to the OB, a different kind of adjustment is necessary. Since the angles are more compressed, you have to aim further away from center for successive cuts. An example of this phenomenon is the often undercut below-the-rack straight pool break shot. The CB and OB are often very close to one another, and the seemingly benign angle requires a steeper aim than feels comfortable.

Here are two pages showing 1/8 ball shots from the same object ball and cueball positions. The shots are all on the 15-ball to spots numbered by the 1-9 balls. The second page shows how even from 3 diamonds away from the rail, there are only subtle adjustments needed on the 1/8 ball aims to pocket all shots within the first 49 degrees. Imagine 4.5" pockets behind the 1-9 balls and how much space is covered by these 1/8 ball increments.
The 7-ball marks the 7th aiming point and 45 degrees away from straight in. That shows, at least to me, that fractional aiming can be very useful, since half of all angles and most of all shots we actually need to make are covered by the first 7 aims. And these aims are easy to find either on the OB or just off of it.

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CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No rebuttals?
By the way, the angles were pretty accurately plotted using the aiming table on cuetable's website.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
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bluepepper said:
No rebuttals?
...
Here's at least a nit with your approach: for a system to be practical, it has to get you to the center of the pocket, not just somewhere between the jaws. I'll give you the center half. That's roughly 1.5 inches wide, which is 1.5 degrees at five diamonds.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bob Jewett said:
Here's at least a nit with your approach: for a system to be practical, it has to get you to the center of the pocket, not just somewhere between the jaws. I'll give you the center half. That's roughly 1.5 inches wide, which is 1.5 degrees at five diamonds.

I guess practicality is subjective. In this case, it would depend on how effective alternate aiming techniques in the player's arsenal are by comparison.

I don't see why a target of 1.5" would be necessary. If you look at the first page showing shots from 2 diamonds away from potential pockets, you can measure 5 pocket widths to cover the first 7 aims, and about 6 1/2 pockets to cover the first 8 aims. If you get to know the object ball release paths of the different aims, you will likely become aware of when a ball will hit the tip of a pocket which means you'll make a subtle adjustment. But only an occasional subtle adjustment would be necessary in this case.

For the 3 diamond shots on the second page, a tad more than 7 pockets cover the first 7 aims. So there would have to be more adjustment here, but again not much. Splitting the 1/8 ball aims in half as one method of adjustment would take care of any shots in this range, and probably pretty much any shot under 49 degrees nearly anywhere within 5 diamonds. Adding subtle adjustments like side spin and deflection and speed, all shots on the table under 49 degrees would likely be covered.

The thin cuts over 49 degrees might be the realm of another system, but I wouldn't think this means that fractional aiming doesn't have significant value if you can recognize the angles.
 

Bob Jewett

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bluepepper said:
... I don't see why a target of 1.5" would be necessary. I ...
Shots have lots of sources of error. Your stroke might not be straight. You might have mis-seen the shot. You might have some unintended side on the ball and you are shooting at a speed where that will affect the shot. The table may have a little roll. Your shaft may be a little crooked. You may get a slight kick of a fraction of a degree. As a consequence, even if your aiming system is perfect, the shot will be off some when it gets to the pocket. One side or the other. Sometimes a little to the left. Sometimes a little to the right. Sometimes when most of the minor contributors line up, quite a bit to one side.

Suppose your aiming system for a particular shot lined the ball up exactly to the extreme side of the pocket. Any minor error to that same side would cause a miss. You would miss half your shots, since on average half the time the small errors would add up to that same side.

So, the question becomes: how much slop and inaccuracy will I allow in my aiming system, realizing that I must reduce all the other sources of error in the path of the object ball to compensate for a somewhat inaccurate system?

A system that settles for the extreme edge of the pocket is broken. A system that gives an aim that is exactly centered on the pocket is best. I think that if you are trying to develop an explicit, step-by-step system, it should at least get you to the middle half of the effective pocket. How long a shot should the system cover? I think having an object ball 6 diamonds from a pocket should not make the system useless.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would agree that if a system forced a person to shoot a shot at the edge of a pocket it may be broken or at least weakened. But the fractional aims are simply guides. If the closest fraction would result in a path towards the edge of a pocket or a half diamond away, the player would simply adjust accordingly using whichever method of adjustment is appropriate.

Also, the fractional aims are simply double-the-distance references from consistent contact points. The contact points for the first 5 aims are only 1/8" away from one another. Being able to split those by splitting the aiming references, and adjusting even further by using spin, speed, and deflection, how much sharper can we expect players to be?
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
fractional aiming analysis

FYI, I have a pertinent analysis and discussion (with other links) here:


Regards,
Dave

bluepepper said:
Dividing the object ball into 1/8 ball increments for aiming gives us 5 distinct aiming points on the object ball to aim the center of the cue ball to cover, at most, the first 27 degrees (from straight in to half ball.) The half ball aim, which is 30 degrees, when comparing it to a straight shot on the same object ball in the same position, is only 27 degrees away from the straight in shot. The reason for this is that the angles compress in comparison to one another when the CB and OB positions don't change. Only the ghost ball moves. In this case, a 4/8 (half ball) aim is about 27 degrees away from 8/8 (full ball) aim.

And the angles further compress as the CB and OB get closer to one another. For example, a 6" distance between CB and OB yields a more compressed array of available angles than a 36" array.

What I wanted to show here is just how many shots are covered by 1/8 ball fractions. Obviously, the further the OB gets from the pocket, the more spread out the 1/8 ball shots become. I'm not suggesting that adjustments are not neccessary, but I am suggesting that very little adjustment is necessary when the OB is within about 3 diamonds from the pocket.
And when the CB is close to the OB, a different kind of adjustment is necessary. Since the angles are more compressed, you have to aim further away from center for successive cuts. An example of this phenomenon is the often undercut below-the-rack straight pool break shot. The CB and OB are often very close to one another, and the seemingly benign angle requires a steeper aim than feels comfortable.

Here are two pages showing 1/8 ball shots from the same object ball and cueball positions. The shots are all on the 15-ball to spots numbered by the 1-9 balls. The second page shows how even from 3 diamonds away from the rail, there are only subtle adjustments needed on the 1/8 ball aims to pocket all shots within the first 49 degrees. Imagine 4.5" pockets behind the 1-9 balls and how much space is covered by these 1/8 ball increments.
The 7-ball marks the 7th aiming point and 45 degrees away from straight in. That shows, at least to me, that fractional aiming can be very useful, since half of all angles and most of all shots we actually need to make are covered by the first 7 aims. And these aims are easy to find either on the OB or just off of it.

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BRKNRUN

Showin some A$$
Silver Member
I have a hard time (at the table) seeing (5) 1/8 axis line increments.

Its not that I can't see them, but they tend to blend together and it also becomes difficult to know is that 1/8th thickness from the next line or 1/9th or 1/7th
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BRKNRUN said:
I have a hard time (at the table) seeing (5) 1/8 axis line increments.

Its not that I can't see them, but they tend to blend together and it also becomes difficult to know is that 1/8th thickness from the next line or 1/9th or 1/7th

Ken, try using the perimeter of the object ball, either from 6 o'clock to 3(or 9) or from 12 o'clock to 3 (or 9), dividing that particular length of perimeter into 4ths or 3rds to come up with reference aims.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
FYI, I have a pertinent analysis and discussion (with other links) here:


Regards,
Dave

I did read that a while ago. It's one of the things that steered me away from fractional aiming, as well as a few daunting numbers posted on this forum. But I don't think it's wise to dismiss the technique especially when shots 49 degrees and under are almost all of what we actually shoot. With 1/8 ball aims and their adjustments almost all shots are covered.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Aiming "reference" systems are like banking/kicking reference systems: the CB/OB fractions are like the table's diamonds, providing obvious visual references as guides to make estimating nearby shots easier. The more references there are, the closer each nearby shot is to a known reference and the easier it is to estimate.

But there's a tradeoff: if I divide the spaces between diamonds into halves, it's still easy enough to accurately visualize the half-diamond "tracks" for banks/kicks so my ability to accurately estimate actual bank/kick shots is improved. But if I divide the spaces between diamonds into fourths, my ability to accurately visualize that many tracks degrades to the point that it no longer improves my ability to make shots.

I don't use ball aiming systems, so I don't know what the equivalent point of diminishing returns is for adding ball fractions, but my sense is that 7 fractions within 1/4 circumference is getting there. Maybe that's just me.

pj
chgo
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't discount useful stuff

bluepepper said:
I did read that a while ago. It's one of the things that steered me away from fractional aiming, as well as a few daunting numbers posted on this forum. But I don't think it's wise to dismiss the technique especially when shots 49 degrees and under are almost all of what we actually shoot. With 1/8 ball aims and their adjustments almost all shots are covered.
I don't discount "fractional ball" or any other aiming system. I think anything that provides useful references and focus is a good thing.

Regards,
Dave
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Patrick, here's a way of dividing the object ball pretty easily for the first 5 aims and their subdivisions. Going through a process of splitting the distance from bottom center to edge, then splitting that midpoint and bottom or edge, then splitting one more time gives you 10 findable aims.

Actually, it seems that doing it on the circumference yields slightly different angles than perfect 1/8 ball divisions through the equator, but whichever way you divide you would just learn your particular reference angles. The midway point between aim 2 and aim 3 looks to match what would be an equator 6/8 ball (right quarter) aim.

I know you're not one do discard useful things Dave, and I sincerely appreciate all the information you contribute and the time you spend preparing your videos and lessons.

untitled.JPG
 

Bob Jewett

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Patrick Johnson said:
... I don't use ball aiming systems, so I don't know what the equivalent point of diminishing returns is for adding ball fractions, but my sense is that 7 fractions within 1/4 circumference is getting there. Maybe that's just me. ...
I've related this story before.... I got a minor programming job from a friend of mine for his HP calculator back around 1980 or so. He wanted to know the angle of the line joining any two diamonds on adjacent cushions relative to one of those cushions. This is not a trivial formula since it involves how far back from the nose of the cushion the diamonds are.

Anyway, he wanted to know this for his aiming system. He had memorized the cut angles for ball fullnesses down to 64ths. If he saw that the object ball was two balls off the cushion at the third diamond, he knew that the angle of the ball relative to the cushion was 7 degrees. If the line of the cue ball was from the far corner pocket to the third diamond plus a little, he knew that the angle of the cue ball relative to that same cushion was 40 degrees. This makes the cut angle 33 degrees and the required fullness for that cut is 29/64ths. Then all he had to do was hit his usual 29/64th-full shot.

Most people don't have either the attention span or the motivation to go to this amount of effort just to aim. He did. And he played pretty well.
 

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just realized something that seems to be a nice bonus when using the periphery rather than the equator. Using equator aiming fractions, angles expand as you move away from center ball up to the edge.
So having a built in way of offsetting this expansion would be advantageous. When you divide the periphery instead, the aims compress into a smaller area as you move away from center. I haven't figured out the resulting angles, but it should even out the shot angles better.

Bob, I do remember your post about your friend. Very interesting. I wonder if he had a special gift such as a photographic memory where he could just call up the 29/64 or 47/64 shot visually when necessary.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
whichever way you divide you would just learn your particular reference angles

But "just learning" them gets more difficult the more there are.

The only fraction that has a definite visual alignment is a half ball hit (which itself relies on estimating the center of the CB). 1/4 ball and 3/4 ball hits are estimations from that with no definite visual landmarks, and then 1/8 ball, 3/8 ball, 5/8 ball and 7/8 ball hits are estimations from those estimations - in other words, errors compound as you add fractional divisions.

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
doing it on the circumference yields slightly different angles than perfect 1/8 ball divisions through the equator

Does "doing it on the circumference" mean dividing the ball 2-dimensionally from the CB's perspective (like "fractional aiming" divisions)? Then yes, quite a bit different in fact:

2d VS 3d FRACTIONS.jpg

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
bluepepper said:
...When you [use equal circumference divisions rather than equal ball fractions], the divisions [remain equal in degrees] as you move away from center.

Well, yes, but there's also no easy way to visualize them - that's the point of using ball fractions instead.

pj
chgo
 
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