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Playing with partners. Alternate turns or shots?
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Playing with partners. Alternate turns or shots? - 06-18-2009, 03:05 PM

I realize that most serious players don't play with partners a lot but if you play in bars a lot it happens. I have a question on playing with partners.

Lets say you have 2 teams with 2 players on each team. Do you alternate by turns or shots?

Turns: Each players shoots till they miss. Next team is up.

Shots: Each player on a team alternates shots. When one of them misses the other team is up and they do the same.

Most of the time it seems that people want to alternate turns. I know this guy who likes to alternate shots because he says it keep his rhythm flowing because you eliminate the longer periods of time between shots.


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06-18-2009, 03:13 PM

It should be alternating shots. At least thats what its always been when i've played mixed doubles.


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06-18-2009, 03:19 PM

I usually play and prefer alternate shot, although its easier to get in and maintain a stroke with alternate turn. I guess it really depends on the match up. Two players that know each others game will fair better in alternate shot than ones that don't.
  
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06-18-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PegLeg View Post
I realize that most serious players don't play with partners a lot but if you play in bars a lot it happens. I have a question on playing with partners.

Lets say you have 2 teams with 2 players on each team. Do you alternate by turns or shots?

Turns: Each players shoots till they miss. Next team is up.

Shots: Each player on a team alternates shots. When one of them misses the other team is up and they do the same.

Most of the time it seems that people want to alternate turns. I know this guy who likes to alternate shots because he says it keep his rhythm flowing because you eliminate the longer periods of time between shots.
The standard partners format at the BCAPL Nationals in Vegas is alternating shots. This is also known as Scotch Doubles.

In the Vegas event, the partners event is normally Mixed Scotch Doubles often known as Jack and Jill.

In the now defunct New England Billiard League (ACS and BCAPL sanctioned), Scotch Doubles was the normal format as well, but with no stipulation for Mixed.

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06-18-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PegLeg View Post
I realize that most serious players don't play with partners a lot but if you play in bars a lot it happens. I have a question on playing with partners.

Lets say you have 2 teams with 2 players on each team. Do you alternate by turns or shots?

Turns: Each players shoots till they miss. Next team is up.

Shots: Each player on a team alternates shots. When one of them misses the other team is up and they do the same.

Most of the time it seems that people want to alternate turns. I know this guy who likes to alternate shots because he says it keep his rhythm flowing because you eliminate the longer periods of time between shots.
Years ago, most people played alternate turns. Nowadays, most people play alternate shots.
The problem with alternating turns is that the other team only has to play safe when the good player on their opposing team is next. So, putting your better shooter in front of theirs was a good strategy.
When you alternate shots, it is more difficult to play around the other teams better player. It makes for a more level playing field. Although, you have to be careful in picking a partner for alternate shots. Some folks don't play good position and your partner could leave you a bunch of difficult shots all day.



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06-18-2009, 04:15 PM

I've played a lot of doubles, and choose the format based on the opponent.

I want to play scotch (rotate between shots, not turns/ innings) if the opposing team fits either:
1. One player is significantly better than the other player
2. One player is left- handed and the other is right
3. One player is super tall and the other short
4. They are either in a relationship or are two young males

If they are about the same (Not dead equal- just about the same) in everything- skill, temperament, etc, then between turns is okay.

Also- my partners have always been close friends who are about my own speed, shape, temperament.

Last edited by blah blah; 06-18-2009 at 04:25 PM. Reason: spelling
  
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06-18-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tucson9ball View Post
When you alternate shots, it is more difficult to play around the other teams better player. It makes for a more level playing field.
Actually, I respectfully disagree with you here. First and foremost, the better player has no chance to run out. He is not running out on the game or running a rack.

On another level, they both feel pressure. The weaker player has pressure to perform to the better player's standards, and the better player feels a lot of pressure to carry the team. Both are self- conscious and frustrated when they miss a ball. Together there is pressure, too. The better player will try to tell the weaker player what shape to leave him- shots that the weaker player may not be able to either see or perform. This makes both of them resentful towards each other. Once their trust and confidence is gone, they will self- combust right in front of you.
  
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06-18-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by blah blah View Post
Actually, I respectfully disagree with you here. First and foremost, the better player has no chance to run out. He is not running out on the game or running a rack.

On another level, they both feel pressure. The weaker player has pressure to perform to the better player's standards, and the better player feels a lot of pressure to carry the team. Both are self- conscious and frustrated when they miss a ball. Together there is pressure, too. The better player will try to tell the weaker player what shape to leave him- shots that the weaker player may not be able to either see or perform. This makes both of them resentful towards each other. Once their trust and confidence is gone, they will self- combust right in front of you.

Good post and good observations from blah blah!

I had despised playing scotch because:

1) I typically was the stronger player & often watched my partner make simple mistakes
2) Too much wasted time on advice discussion from some people - slowwww play, and often contentious times

But I got into a decent $ game ($200 sets) for scotch and got a partner of similar demeanor and speed. We played very well together and I really enoyed it for the first time.
  
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06-18-2009, 06:47 PM

this might depend on your goals (having fun vs making money). My goals are having fun, and I say alternate shots without a doubt.

With alternate turns, often someone doesn't get a turn, or you just wait a long time to get a chance to shoot. It feels more like 1v1 than doubles.

doubles truly feels like a team effort and you have to keep your partner's strengths and weaknesses in mind. I enjoy the challenge of teaming up with a weaker player and trying to get the kind of leave where missing the ball is almost impossible, and the cue ball will automatically get shape on something. Not to mention the challenge of comiing up with trick shots from what they leave you.
  
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06-18-2009, 06:52 PM

I have a guy over that plays about half speed of me. To change things up I decided to start playing the ghost with him scotch style. I have to play perfect to make up the difference in skill level. We can't beat the ghost with hill/hill being the best so far. If you want added pressure try this with a weaker player.
  
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06-18-2009, 07:16 PM

alternate shots is harder and forces more teamwork. alternate turns works fine for one pocket. alternate shots is fun for 14.1
  
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06-18-2009, 07:32 PM

Around here: 'Alternate shots' is called 'scotch doubles'
  
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06-18-2009, 08:43 PM

If it's social who cares? If your gambling it's part of the negotiations, just like giving weight.
  
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06-18-2009, 09:40 PM

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Quote:
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The standard partners format at the BCAPL Nationals in Vegas is alternating shots. This is also known as Scotch Doubles.

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06-19-2009, 03:40 AM

The scotch format keeps all of the players involved in the game.
The trick is to find someone who has a similar style and temperment. Skill level isn't as important to picking a partner. The stronger player should take the lead and set the weaker player in a position to play natural shape. It's like dancing, someone has to lead.
To the comment about added pressure....My response is to have a conversation with your partner before you get started. The stronger player should ease the weaker players pressure by telling him you know he'll do his best and not to worry about putting you right on a ball.

There is no "sorry" between partners. Both players must know the other is putting forth the best effort and if something bad happens, it isn't anything to apologise for because you didn't mean to do it.

I personally hated the format when I first played it, but now it is what I prefer.




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