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Safety Play and Tie up balls?
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Johnnyt
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Safety Play and Tie up balls? - 06-22-2009, 12:26 PM

When I play 9-ball, 10-ball, and most other games and my opponent safes me lockup or I safe myself, I tie up balls and take the foul if Iím probably going to give up BIH anyhow by not being able to hit the lowest on the table. I donít see many players doing this. Is it considered dirty pool now? Or am missing something in the defense department? Johnnyt


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06-22-2009, 12:43 PM

Not dirty pool just often overlooked by more offensive minded players...
  
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06-22-2009, 12:43 PM

IMO;
'dirty pool' = spitting in the chalk.
Safety play = getting BIH to win the game.

Aggressive play, IMO, is taking the low percentage shot rather than playing the higher percentage safety move.

I always thought giving up the table to my opponent was giving them an opportunity to WIN. I felt I was giving up on myself and not taking the risk I should to WIN.

Safety play has won me more games that taking that RISK.


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06-22-2009, 01:34 PM

No. You're not missing anything.


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Moves - 06-22-2009, 01:40 PM

Playing to win has a different meaning than it did 40 or 50 years ago.

And there is difference between playing well and winning. I didn't really learn how to win until I was in my 30's. That is, learning how to maintain an advantage in the game after EACH Turn at the table. Safeties, and yes, sometimes tying balls up play a big part of that. You have to keep the odds in your favor that you will win the game in the end, after all, that is the objective. I have seen offensive minded players lose consistently because they favor a 10-15% offensive shot over a 70-80% safety.

How do lessor players beat a better player, by using good defense. Why, because even the best player won't hit or make shots when they have to kick at balls, 1 or more rails, and this creates opportunity for the lessor player to get back to the table, and maybe run out. Yet, defensive shots are not learned to practiced usually until you get so good. They are worth practicing, I guarantee you. In fact, learning to control the cue ball in every type of situation will pay dividends in the future. 3 time World Champion Jimmy Caras told me, when I was 14, that controlling the cue ball was 70% of the game, and I took it to heart.


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06-22-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyt View Post
When I play 9-ball, 10-ball, and most other games and my opponent safes me lockup or I safe myself, I tie up balls and take the foul if Iím probably going to give up BIH anyhow by not being able to hit the lowest on the table. I donít see many players doing this. Is it considered dirty pool now? Or am missing something in the defense department? Johnnyt
I use this strategy in 9-ball quite a bit. I've almost never seen anybody else use this strategy in 9-ball where I play until I started doing it. Then a few other people caught on and started doing it too.

All the time, I see a player will go for some impossible hit, give ball in hand, and bust the balls wide open for their opponents for an easy run out. That's just dumb.

It's only bad strategy if you're in the wrong bar. In some bars, it's an unwritten rule that you're never supposed to play safe. If you play that shot in one of those places, you'll probably get stabbed or a cue rammed up your ass or something like that.
  
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06-22-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny View Post
I use this strategy in 9-ball quite a bit. I've almost never seen anybody else use this strategy in 9-ball where I play until I started doing it. Then a few other people caught on and started doing it too.

All the time, I see a player will go for some impossible hit, give ball in hand, and bust the balls wide open for their opponents for an easy run out. That's just dumb.

It's only bad strategy if you're in the wrong bar. In some bars, it's an unwritten rule that you're never supposed to play safe. If you play that shot in one of those places, you'll probably get stabbed or a cue rammed up your ass or something like that.

I started doing this after I watch Donny do it. He is the man!!!!
  
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06-22-2009, 02:37 PM

I use that stratergy all the time. Yes it is over looked a lot. I don't see a lot of people from where I play do it much. Creating difficult clusters can get you back to the table with a better opportunity for sure. You are a sly old dog aren't you Johnny.
  
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06-22-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny View Post
I use this strategy in 9-ball quite a bit. I've almost never seen anybody else use this strategy in 9-ball where I play until I started doing it. Then a few other people caught on and started doing it too.

All the time, I see a player will go for some impossible hit, give ball in hand, and bust the balls wide open for their opponents for an easy run out. That's just dumb.

It's only bad strategy if you're in the wrong bar. In some bars, it's an unwritten rule that you're never supposed to play safe. If you play that shot in one of those places, you'll probably get stabbed or a cue rammed up your ass or something like that. :eek:
Im going to a tournament this wednesday in Brownwood TX at Dukes Pub & Grub....guess I'll find out what kind of place it is real quick. If it's a higher percentage of winning by hiding the rock......"That would be BIH where I come from.....sir"
  
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safety
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safety - 06-22-2009, 03:01 PM

Well son i have been around the game a long time, as im 71 yr and have saw the game change in many ways-- but saftey play has been around along time as when a young boy i learned the game of snooker and a big part of it was saftey play if you did not have a shoot.the pat that i dislike most is the jump-shoot, takes away the kick, which is a thing of beauty to me more than a jump, but just one old man opinion!!!!:confused :


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06-22-2009, 03:57 PM

I have been tying up balls for years It was taught to me by a great 9baller named "Pineapple" AKA Dave Marks....a real strong player up here in the north east.

I learned the game playing a ton of 14.1 and I have the knowledge to break out tough clusters if needed, so to make it tough on the other guy knowing I might get it back is no problem....


>>>even more rare>>>tye up some balls on a tough layout and have the other guy "give" it back to you!!! VERY RARE!

but good stratego!


G.


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06-22-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyt View Post
When I play 9-ball, 10-ball, and most other games and my opponent safes me lockup or I safe myself, I tie up balls and take the foul if Iím probably going to give up BIH anyhow by not being able to hit the lowest on the table. I donít see many players doing this. Is it considered dirty pool now? Or am missing something in the defense department? Johnnyt
Ya know that depends on where your playin. Locking balls is the smart thiing to do, but don't do it in some redneck bar. You know what I mean.
  
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06-22-2009, 04:40 PM

I have been playing for 50 years and reached a certain level of play back in the early 80s and never got past it. I asked a very good player (Neptune Joe Frady from Jersey)about this and he said as best i remember "You might never get any better at shot making or position play but you can play better by playing smarter" So i figured the only thing left was to get better at safety play. "Dirty Pool " is a phrase used by low level bar players and not serious dedicated players.When someone plays a jam up defensive move on me i will compliment them even though inside thats not what i feel.Do what you have to do to win as long as it is legal and with in the bounds of common courtesy.


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06-22-2009, 05:45 PM

I certainly don't think it's "dirty pool." Just like most everyone here is saying, it's giving yourself the best opportunity to win, even if that means giving the other ball in hand. You'll see a lof the top pros use this whenever they get put in jail, but not too often amongst players who aren't at that level. I'm a younger guy myself, but I think another reason might be that most guys from the old school is because they played 2 foul push-out. Playing safe was a good idea, but ball in hand was rare to come by. They would just keep rolling out.


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06-22-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by measureman View Post
I have been playing for 50 years and reached a certain level of play back in the early 80s and never got past it. I asked a very good player (Neptune Joe Frady from Jersey)about this and he said as best i remember "You might never get any better at shot making or position play but you can play better by playing smarter" So i figured the only thing left was to get better at safety play. "Dirty Pool " is a phrase used by low level bar players and not serious dedicated players.When someone plays a jam up defensive move on me i will compliment them even though inside thats not what i feel.Do what you have to do to win as long as it is legal and with in the bounds of common courtesy.


Neptune Joe Frady....SUPER player, and I have lost to him more then once! any advise from him would be well taken!

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