Bubble Boy
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drivermaker
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Bubble Boy - 08-31-2005, 04:04 PM

So much has been beaten around on this forum over the last week about aiming, feel in aiming, and feel in every other part of the game. Now it seems like a whole new breed of "FEEL" player/theorists are coming out of the woodword to espouse the benefits of something we can't really describe and apply it to EVERYTHING. THE ENTIRE GAME SHOULD BE FEEL.

OK...where would that take us if we had a "BUBBLE BOY"....an individual that reached his late teens, graduated with good grades in high school, but came down with a a terrible disease of the immunity system and had to be placed in a perfectly controlled bacteria/virus free BUBBLE environment.

Let's assume "Bubble Boy" was slowly going bonkers in there and happened to be watching an ESPN pool match and said that he'd like to have a pool table in his Bubble, which the facility granted especially since his daddy was rich as hell and giving money for their research.

There are some on here that want to teach a mere beginner nothing but making balls through feel and feel alone without cluttering the mind on anything, whether it be aiming, stance, grip, stroke, english, etc.

Now upon receiving his pool table, you would have to admit, that Bubble Boy would be the ULTIMATE feel player on his first day at the table since he has NOTHING to think about because he knows NOTHING.

What do you think would happen to Bubble Boy's development if he NEVER got one book to read, got no tapes to watch, and had NO ONE instruct him on any facet of the game at all? What if his only instruction was to use that blue stuff on the rails and scrape it across the tip of your cue on every shot and that was it!

However, remember that Bubble Boy has 16 hours a day to stay at the table and hit all the balls that he cares to hit. How far do you think "FEEL" alone would take Bubble Boy into a becoming a certain level player without ANY help from the outside in knowledge?
  
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08-31-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivermaker
So much has been beaten around on this forum over the last week about aiming, feel in aiming, and feel in every other part of the game. Now it seems like a whole new breed of "FEEL" player/theorists are coming out of the woodword to espouse the benefits of something we can't really describe and apply it to EVERYTHING. THE ENTIRE GAME SHOULD BE FEEL.

OK...where would that take us if we had a "BUBBLE BOY"....an individual that reached his late teens, graduated with good grades in high school, but came down with a a terrible disease of the immunity system and had to be placed in a perfectly controlled bacteria/virus free BUBBLE environment.

Let's assume "Bubble Boy" was slowly going bonkers in there and happened to be watching an ESPN pool match and said that he'd like to have a pool table in his Bubble, which the facility granted especially since his daddy was rich as hell and giving money for their research.

There are some on here that want to teach a mere beginner nothing but making balls through feel and feel alone without cluttering the mind on anything, whether it be aiming, stance, grip, stroke, english, etc.

Now upon receiving his pool table, you would have to admit, that Bubble Boy would be the ULTIMATE feel player on his first day at the table since he has NOTHING to think about because he knows NOTHING.

What do you think would happen to Bubble Boy's development if he NEVER got one book to read, got no tapes to watch, and had NO ONE instruct him on any facet of the game at all? What if his only instruction was to use that blue stuff on the rails and scrape it across the tip of your cue on every shot and that was it!

However, remember that Bubble Boy has 16 hours a day to stay at the table and hit all the balls that he cares to hit. How far do you think "FEEL" alone would take Bubble Boy into a becoming a certain level player without ANY help from the outside in knowledge?
Does Bubble Boy get to use drugs to enhance his game?


PUT NOTHING ON YOUR CUE SHAFT. The tacky culprits are slickers, fillers, burnishing agents, waxes and polishes. These compounds become sluggish breaking down during play due to moistures from your hands and the air. Result is a sticky grit magnet. SlipStic Conditioner - VISIT www.slipstic.com for more info. Just natural cue shaft feel without the tackiness...it just works. (Perfect when using a glove or powder too) SlipStic. DuPont - Miracles of Science. Also visit www.RICOforKIDS.org
  
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08-31-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivermaker
So much has been beaten around on this forum over the last week about aiming, feel in aiming, and feel in every other part of the game. Now it seems like a whole new breed of "FEEL" player/theorists are coming out of the woodword to espouse the benefits of something we can't really describe and apply it to EVERYTHING. THE ENTIRE GAME SHOULD BE FEEL.

OK...where would that take us if we had a "BUBBLE BOY"....an individual that reached his late teens, graduated with good grades in high school, but came down with a a terrible disease of the immunity system and had to be placed in a perfectly controlled bacteria/virus free BUBBLE environment.

Let's assume "Bubble Boy" was slowly going bonkers in there and happened to be watching an ESPN pool match and said that he'd like to have a pool table in his Bubble, which the facility granted especially since his daddy was rich as hell and giving money for their research.

There are some on here that want to teach a mere beginner nothing but making balls through feel and feel alone without cluttering the mind on anything, whether it be aiming, stance, grip, stroke, english, etc.

Now upon receiving his pool table, you would have to admit, that Bubble Boy would be the ULTIMATE feel player on his first day at the table since he has NOTHING to think about because he knows NOTHING.

What do you think would happen to Bubble Boy's development if he NEVER got one book to read, got no tapes to watch, and had NO ONE instruct him on any facet of the game at all? What if his only instruction was to use that blue stuff on the rails and scrape it across the tip of your cue on every shot and that was it!

However, remember that Bubble Boy has 16 hours a day to stay at the table and hit all the balls that he cares to hit. How far do you think "FEEL" alone would take Bubble Boy into a becoming a certain level player without ANY help from the outside in knowledge?

What would happen?....In about 20 minutes he would offer you the snaps......LOL


Get up and play
  
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08-31-2005, 05:38 PM

After a couple years he would go on the road with his bubble, gamble up a storm, win multiple events in a pro LA tournament, decide pool sucks cause there is no money, start playing poker, and then 10 years later find out about AZBilliards and espouse his theories on the game of pool in an odd form of internet lingo/speech that I can only assume is caused by difficulties hitting the right keys through the plastic of the bubble.
  
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drivermaker
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08-31-2005, 05:59 PM

So far I've seen nothing but utter brilliance coming from the crowd of Mensa members. Maybe I should just take it one step at a time.

With NO ASSISTANCE or HELP...how do you think Bubble Boy would even grip the cue for the rest of his life to shoot. The first timers that I've seen always put the heel pad of their hand on the table...have the palm facing forward with the fingers spread wide apart and facing skyward...and place the cue between the forefinger and the crook of the thumb as it's spread wide apart from each other. And it wobbles all over the place. Do you think Bubble Boy would figure it out on his own to get the finger tips on the table...get the thumb very tight to the forefinger...and pull it together to form a bridge with a higher elevation?

How about a closed bridge...do you think he'd EVER figure that one out on his own with no instruction. Everytime someone tries learning a closed bridge for the first time they end up looking like a total spastic as they curl their fingers around a cue.
  
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08-31-2005, 06:08 PM

In this story... does he only see pool on ESPN once? I only ask cause if bubble boy had any common sense, when he got the table, and realized that he couldn't come close to doing what the people on tv were doing, he would then try to emulate them and watch every hour of pool ever shown on ESPN. He would quite possibly end up with a good stance, decent bridge, and a workable stroke.... Now, if he were to have never seen pool on tv or anywhere else and someone thought they would provide him with entertainment and give him a pool table... his fundamentals would quite possibly always be close to neanderthal. BUT, with all of that practice time, he could also end up "perfecting a bad habit" and end up playing pretty sporty. I say this because of two reasons... A) Keith M doesn't posses any of the "correct fundamentals" and was at one time probably one of the most feared competitors there was. B) have you EVER seen the "stroke" of Mike Davis???? (Mike, you know I luv ya)
  
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08-31-2005, 06:12 PM

The bubble boy would have the deck stacked against him without any guidance. Odds are he wouldn't develop as well as somebody getting instruction. Then again, there have been many exceptions to this, and the self-taught occasionally become excellent players.
  
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08-31-2005, 06:29 PM

I may regret putting my 2 cents in, but here goes.

The only thing i have learned that someone else taught me is that when the cue ball is on the rail, i tend to choke up too much on the cue. Everything else i learned by watching (bubble boy watching espn ), or by trial and error. I put in hours of practice a day by my self.

I currently would be considered a good B player (a low A in my best days). I have played in about 7, or 8 joss tour events(none recently), and have placed 3 times.

I have a horrible stroke, and a lot of bad habbits that certainly would have benefitted from some advice, or lessons, but i got as good as i am on my own.

Rodney Paradis(e)<---only shows placing twice in player finder

Last edited by Rodney; 08-31-2005 at 06:31 PM.
  
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08-31-2005, 09:00 PM

I think a lot would depend on BBs attitude. If he were fairly athletic and imaginative and attentive and dedicated, he could learn to do good things with his stroke. Without outside influences and feedback he would end up with a lot of bad habits, just like most of us B players, but would learn to pot balls fairly well and eventually figure out some elements of position play. He would have one heck of a time competing in a game of pool as the strategy of any game would be extremely difficult to learn alone (and it might be worse if he has the volume turned on when watching the ESPN matches). As an example, he would never learn to kick or play safes, as there would be absolutely no motivation. In fact, depending on how much pool he watched on TV, he may not even know those plays in games exist ! The game in his eyes might be reduced to simply pocketing balls. I'd like to be able to do that ... pot balls that is.

Dave
  
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08-31-2005, 09:47 PM

i think if he had any natural talent and got to watch pool on tv and did practice 16 hours a day,he would probably be a hell of a player in 5-10 years.
  
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08-31-2005, 10:39 PM

How would he know to scrape that blue stuff across the tip of his cue? Did someone teach him? He had no tapes to watch, but he DID get see PRO's playing on ESPN...That HAD to teach him something.
  
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09-01-2005, 01:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjm
The bubble boy would have the deck stacked against him without any guidance. Odds are he wouldn't develop as well as somebody getting instruction. Then again, there have been many exceptions to this, and the self-taught occasionally become excellent players.
Even self-taught players have the advantage of having seen great players or watched and learned from vidoes.

A quote from Isaac Newton is relevent here:
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"


Quote:
"The first essential step in the direction of learning any subject is to find principles of numerical reckoning and practicable methods for measuring some quality connected with it. I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - Lord Kelvin
  
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09-01-2005, 04:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by drivermaker
So much has been beaten around on this forum over the last week about aiming, feel in aiming, and feel in every other part of the game. Now it seems like a whole new breed of "FEEL" player/theorists are coming out of the woodword to espouse the benefits of something we can't really describe and apply it to EVERYTHING. THE ENTIRE GAME SHOULD BE FEEL.
exaggerating as usual
OK...where would that take us if we had a "BUBBLE BOY"....an individual that reached his late teens, graduated with good grades in high school, but came down with a a terrible disease of the immunity system and had to be placed in a perfectly controlled bacteria/virus free BUBBLE environment.
good! as long as were not being outrageous.
Let's assume "Bubble Boy" was slowly going bonkers in there and happened to be watching an ESPN pool match and said that he'd like to have a pool table in his Bubble, which the facility granted especially since his daddy was rich as hell and giving money for their research.
"He taught himself the “simple” shots such as English, draw, follow-through and position by watching the good players." (Guess who that quote refers to)
There are some on here that want to teach a mere beginner nothing but making balls through feel and feel alone without cluttering the mind on anything, whether it be aiming, stance, grip, stroke, english, etc.
You really don't read the posts. Do you?
Now upon receiving his pool table, you would have to admit, that Bubble Boy would be the ULTIMATE feel player on his first day at the table since he has NOTHING to think about because he knows NOTHING.
Yep. you got it
What do you think would happen to Bubble Boy's development if he NEVER got one book to read, got no tapes to watch, and had NO ONE instruct him on any facet of the game at all? What if his only instruction was to use that blue stuff on the rails and scrape it across the tip of your cue on every shot and that was it!
see below
However, remember that Bubble Boy has 16 hours a day to stay at the table and hit all the balls that he cares to hit. How far do you think "FEEL" alone would take Bubble Boy into a becoming a certain level player without ANY help from the outside in knowledge?
EFREN REYES was born Aug. 26, 1954, in Angeles, Pampanga. He is the middle son of nine children - five boys and four girls. His family was poor and his father worked as a barber. When Efren was five years old, his family sent him to stay with his uncle, who owned the Lucky 13 pool hall in Avenida, Manila. Efren was put to work as a billiard attendant. This is where he picked up the nickname "Bata" (The Kid). Efren's bed was the pool table. Efren did not actually pick up a pool cue until he was eight years old, but for the first three years at the Lucky 13, he still learned a lot about the game. Not only from watching the hustlers, the movie "When I slept on the table, I dreamt about pool," he said. "I learned about pool from my dreams." Then at eight years old, he began living out the dreams. "Just to be able to shoot," he said, "I stacked cases of Coke three high so I could play pool." After a shot, he would move the cases around the table so he could take another shot. Even though his uncle did not want him to play pool, Efren would play two hours in the morning and two hours in the evening, when nobody was around. "I liked sleeping on the table because when I woke up I could play pool." He started gambling at nine years old. At 12, several of his rich Chinese friends, whom Efren met at the Lucky 13, tagged him along to different places like Bulacan, Olongapo, and Angeles for vacations. While there, they would pick up games. The friends would finance Efren against some of the best players in the Philippines. Once he beat the number two guy in the country. "I watched all the good players and the weak players, too," he said. He practiced every shot. He had no teacher. "I learned the simple shots from the good players. English, draw, follow, how to put the cue ball in position. But what about the other shots? The good players don't know the invisible shots. A lot of times the weak players make these impossible shots. I learned a lot of trick shots from watching bad players." Efren dropped out of high school after two years in order to support his family by playing pool. He had financiers and he would play for maybe P100.


My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.(Hosea 4:6)
  
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drivermaker
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09-01-2005, 04:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Colenso
Even self-taught players have the advantage of having seen great players or watched and learned from vidoes.

A quote from Isaac Newton is relevent here:
"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"

You beat me to the punch Colin, (this time ONLY) cause I just woke up a little while ago. But after reading SJM and other responses, I was going down this exact same path. Hey, forget about GREAT players. When I first started playing pool I thought the GREATEST players were the older guys in my pool room in shithole USA! Man, those suckers could knock in balls and run a rack or two of 9 ball racks like nothing. I took a little from each of THEM in my setup, stroke, and even mannerisms of chalking or walking cool around the table. I think we tend to forget just how much we learn from watching others and trying to mimic what they do.

And to Timberly and others...NO, ESPN sports coverage was suddenly changed on him to another sports network that no longer carried pool telecasts.

So back to the first post...how good is Bubble Boy going to get whacking balls around for 16 hours a day based on "FEEL" or being "COMFORTABLE" at the table doing what he's doing. Nobody even answered how he was going to solve the grip issue. What do you think he would try to learn on his own FIRST in his attempt to pocket balls? I would imagine the "feel" junkies here would just say, "well, he wouldn't learn ANYTHING. He'd just start pocketing balls by feel". Is that the way it works?
  
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09-01-2005, 04:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BazookaJoe
"I watched all the good players and the weak players, too," he said. He practiced every shot. "I learned the simple shots from the good players.

The above is the most important part of your post.

However, just so you know...if the "NOT INVITED" option ever came available by Mike to ban certain people from threads that one started...YOU would be first on the list. BTW jerkoff...that was a real class act thing you did yesterday to get the entire Aiming Thread deleted. Do you honestly think in your own mind that you go through life with both oars in the water?

Last edited by drivermaker; 09-01-2005 at 05:26 AM.
  
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