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ShootingArts
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gripping further back on the cue, Bob Jewett comment - 06-26-2010, 10:12 AM

I didn't want to derail the thread this was posted in but I've been wanting to ask about this, seems like a good time.


Quote from Bob's post in another thread:
Many snooker players -- who earn far more than pool players, on average at the top -- grip their sticks all the way at the end; they have no room to slip. Nearly every top carom player uses a rubber grip; their hands do not slip even with light grips.(end quote)

I shot like this most of the time I played every day, my grip hand very near the buttcap or on it. I have a fair amount of wingspan and this is where the grip hand naturally wanted to be it seemed. With my return to pool and desire to learn "the right way to play" I moved my grip hand forward to a more common grip. The last few times I played I have let my grip hand wander wherever it wanted to. Near the buttcap for most shots, moving ahead for soft shots needing a lot of touch. Been a few years since I changed to the forward grip and I may be getting the "any change effect" but I seem to be pocketing a little better. I'm left wondering, what are the advantages and disadvantages of gripping near the back of the stick?

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Duane Remick
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06-26-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
I didn't want to derail the thread this was posted in but I've been wanting to ask about this, seems like a good time.


Quote from Bob's post in another thread:
Many snooker players -- who earn far more than pool players, on average at the top -- grip their sticks all the way at the end; they have no room to slip. Nearly every top carom player uses a rubber grip; their hands do not slip even with light grips.(end quote)

I shot like this most of the time I played every day, my grip hand very near the buttcap or on it. I have a fair amount of wingspan and this is where the grip hand naturally wanted to be it seemed. With my return to pool and desire to learn "the right way to play" I moved my grip hand forward to a more common grip. The last few times I played I have let my grip hand wander wherever it wanted to. Near the buttcap for most shots, moving ahead for soft shots needing a lot of touch. Been a few years since I changed to the forward grip and I may be getting the "any change effect" but I seem to be pocketing a little better. I'm left wondering, what are the advantages and disadvantages of gripping near the back of the stick?

Hu
I think that its "what works for You"
Some like hard tips, soft tips, layered tips...
Steel joint, radial pin, Ivory joint....
Meucci , Schon, Tascarella, ....
I've seen Players like David Matlock- butt of the cue is in the palm of His Hand- Play FLAWLESS,
Ive watched Luther LAssiter on Youtube- His Grip is right at the top of the wrap-Luther was one of the greatest Players EVER...
"Find out what works best for You, what most-comfortable and Gets The Best Results-CONSISTANLY


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06-26-2010, 10:25 AM

It is held that you should hit the CB as level to the slate as possible. If you hit it with your fore arm past perpendicular to the floor, the tip of the cue will be dipping down toward the slate - scrubbing/wiping the CB. If you hold the cue at the back, you will be hitting the CB with your fore arm more perpendicular to the floor and thus, the cue will be more level to the slate.


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I do agree
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I do agree - 06-26-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane Remick View Post
I think that its "what works for You"
Some like hard tips, soft tips, layered tips...
Steel joint, radial pin, Ivory joint....
Meucci , Schon, Tascarella, ....
I've seen Players like David Matlock- butt of the cue is in the palm of His Hand- Play FLAWLESS,
Ive watched Luther LAssiter on Youtube- His Grip is right at the top of the wrap-Luther was one of the greatest Players EVER...
"Find out what works best for You, what most-comfortable and Gets The Best Results-CONSISTANLY

Duane,

I do agree with what you are saying, just curious what folks see as the advantages and disadvantages. I've changed my opinion of a few things over the years and changed my way of doing a few things when there was fairly compelling reason to. So far it seems the further I move away from the way I did things thirty-forty years ago the worse I play. The more I return to old "flaws" the better I play. Could be like my personal flaws, I recognize I have a few but they are the oldest friends I have. I'd hate to lose them now!

Hu
  
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06-26-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
What are the advantages and disadvantages of gripping near the back of the stick?

Hu


Depending on your setup, it can remove some elbow drop in your shot. If your hand is too far forward on the cue, you will have to drop your elbow to follow through.

This all depends on your current setup, but YES, it can help certain players to move their hand a little further back.


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06-26-2010, 10:43 AM

I like to think as long as the back arm is at 90 at cb impact,It depends on wingspan I would think,a tall and long arm player would naturally grip it further back

Last edited by peteypooldude; 06-26-2010 at 10:44 AM. Reason: typo
  
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06-26-2010, 10:44 AM

There are a few reasons I grip at the very end.
1)
It allows my stance and left arm to fall into a comfortable position ie slight bend in the left arm to put my bridge hand directly in front and very forward weight balance on my left foot. if you shorten the cue you would have to alter either the bend in your bridge arm or your body position.

2)longer bridge gives me better accuracy striking the cue ball and better follow through

3) it gives more forward balance of the cue.
  
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06-26-2010, 10:54 AM

Grip towards the back or towards the front is not quite the way I'd look at it. Grip where your arm is pointed straight down at contact is the key factor as this is where the cue is most level. As was already pointed out this will vary depending on the players wing span.


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06-26-2010, 11:11 AM

Grip/hand placement is more about the balance point of a cue - IMO.

I have had the weight adjusted (to move the balance point) on my personal playing cue to and fro until my hand naturally falls where I want it to - ultimately having the proper (my ideal) average distance from bridge hand to cue ball.
  
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06-26-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
I didn't want to derail the thread this was posted in but I've been wanting to ask about this, seems like a good time.


Quote from Bob's post in another thread:
Many snooker players -- who earn far more than pool players, on average at the top -- grip their sticks all the way at the end; they have no room to slip. Nearly every top carom player uses a rubber grip; their hands do not slip even with light grips.(end quote)

I shot like this most of the time I played every day, my grip hand very near the buttcap or on it. I have a fair amount of wingspan and this is where the grip hand naturally wanted to be it seemed. With my return to pool and desire to learn "the right way to play" I moved my grip hand forward to a more common grip. The last few times I played I have let my grip hand wander wherever it wanted to. Near the buttcap for most shots, moving ahead for soft shots needing a lot of touch. Been a few years since I changed to the forward grip and I may be getting the "any change effect" but I seem to be pocketing a little better. I'm left wondering, what are the advantages and disadvantages of gripping near the back of the stick?

Hu
Pool and snooker are different games with an emphasis on different skills. Pool has a lot of room for error compared to snooker.

It can be a humbling experience for a pool player who thinks they are accurate to play snooker on a tight table! For "splitting the pocket" accuracy, snooker players have developed rigid, repeatable routines, where they try to use the same stance, head position, stroke, bridge, everything they can from shot-to-shot. If you watch Davis or O'Sullivan play you recognize how disiplined they are setting up for each shot.

I believe that snooker players have the highest level of repeatable stroke attainable in the cue sports. I imagine that pool players look sloppy to them, but I can also imagine they marvel at how we can subtly use the relatively generous pockets to change angles and achieve what sometimes looks like impossible position play.

Why at the back of the cue?

- One, it is a consistent placement. It's easy to find the back of the cue. Snooker players tend to use a pendulum stroke - the weight of the cue, especially a snooker cue, is back on the butt, so I believe this helps them feel the weight of the cue without restricting their stroke.

- Two, let's not forget that snooker cues are generally shorter and lighter than pool cues, and carom cues are shorter yet.

- Snooker players don't usually drop their elbows like pool players, so their grip placement is probably a little more critical to them.

I used to think a light, loose grip was a good thing in pool, but I had a lot of trouble with inconsistency in the power game. Since I've firmed up my grip, my power shots have gained new found life and accuracy. It took a while to adjust to a firmer grip, but I'm now pleased with the result.

Chris


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Last edited by TATE; 06-26-2010 at 12:09 PM.
  
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06-26-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthepockets View Post
There are a few reasons I grip at the very end.
1)
It allows my stance and left arm to fall into a comfortable position ie slight bend in the left arm to put my bridge hand directly in front and very forward weight balance on my left foot. if you shorten the cue you would have to alter either the bend in your bridge arm or your body position.

2)longer bridge gives me better accuracy striking the cue ball and better follow through

3) it gives more forward balance of the cue.
I'd agree with #1, more of a personal choice, but not with 2 or 3. A shorter bridge gives way more accuracy than a long one, Straight pool players would, I think, agree. A longer bridge gives the cue more chance to wobble. Why do you think it would give more forward balance?


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06-26-2010, 12:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushout View Post
I'd agree with #1, more of a personal choice, but not with 2 or 3. A shorter bridge gives way more accuracy than a long one, Straight pool players would, I think, agree. A longer bridge gives the cue more chance to wobble. Why do you think it would give more forward balance?
That brings up a question. For the same reason that a longer bridge can produce more error from side to side movement, would not a longer backhand result in potentially the same thing?


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06-26-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushout View Post
I'd agree with #1, more of a personal choice, but not with 2 or 3. A shorter bridge gives way more accuracy than a long one, Straight pool players would, I think, agree. A longer bridge gives the cue more chance to wobble. Why do you think it would give more forward balance?

For me the longer bridge gives a more visual reference to how straight I push the cue through when feathering the ball. the short bridge gets me more off line and long potting is a pretty strong element of my game.
The weight on the bridge hand increases as you move the grip back giving a more forward balance.
  
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06-26-2010, 01:11 PM

peteypooldude...I agree with you, in principle, but it also depends on the length of your bridge. Many of the Filipino players shoot with a very long bridge, and hold their cues near the end. Almost none of them are even close to 6' or taller.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteypooldude View Post
I like to think as long as the back arm is at 90 at cb impact,It depends on wingspan I would think,a tall and long arm player would naturally grip it further back


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thanks, and please don't stop now
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thanks, and please don't stop now - 06-26-2010, 02:02 PM

I'm in and out today and have to run down the road a few hours right now with no time for individual replies until later but the wide range of thoughts and opinions that are being posted are exactly what I was hoping for. Everyone's thoughts and opinions are very much appreciated.

Thanks to everyone and please don't stop now!

Hu
  
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