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Title: I guess I have to much fun. -OR- Is there honor in Pool?
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CaptainJR
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Title: I guess I have to much fun. -OR- Is there honor in Pool? - 02-08-2006, 08:34 AM

I was at a 8 ball tournament two weeks ago. After winning my first match I next played one of the heavy favorites to win. He eventually took second. This past Saturday I was at another event and several players ask me if I was going to be as forgiving that day as I was during the hill hill game with this player. Evidently he had touched the cue ball with his tip while addressing it.

I know that you should watch the game. I don't know if I was talking or watching another game or whatever, but I didn't see this happen. When I've done this, I pick up the cue ball and hand it to my opponent. He doesn't have to see it.

P.S. Posted just so you know that I know.


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CaptainJR
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02-08-2006, 08:40 AM

Hello Charlie.

I goofed up. I meant to post this in the main forum. Guess I was in yours and posted it here by accident.

Sorry
JR


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hillbilly
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02-08-2006, 09:57 AM

Thats OK. It should give you a good feeling though, knowing that this heavy favorite felt like he needed to act unaccording to good sportsmanship to beat you.
  
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Timberly
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02-08-2006, 04:38 PM

John, did he hit it with the tip while he was practice stroking or had he put the ball on the table and then used his shaft/ferrule to move the ball to his desired position? I only ask this because in the area that we live in, some people like to call this a foul.

The very last match of my short lived TAP session, our team played a team that had a husband & wife on it. The wife didn't know the first thing about pool (she was my opponent) and her hubby (a very controlling jerk to put it nicely) who also didn't appear to know all that much about pool was her coach. I had ball in hand, set the cue ball down, bent over to see that I put the cue where I wanted, and then proceeded to use my shaft/ferrule to perfectly position the shot. Her hubby couldn't say anything but afterwards got onto her for not calling a foul on me.

We also played a team on the independent scotch doubles league that tried to tell me the same thing... this coming from a guy that when it was his shot would point out the balls he wanted to make in what order so that his partner (a female that was't a very good player) would know. (telling your partner was cheating unless a time out was called).

In the 15 yrs that I've been around pool and the states between SC & TX, I never once heard of this until I started playing in this one particular county of PA.
  
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02-08-2006, 04:46 PM

There's a slim chance he was looking at the object ball during that warmup stroke and didn't notice his tip hitting the cueball, if it barely made contact and didn't move the cueball. But you probably got Strickland'ed
  
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02-08-2006, 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberly
John, did he hit it with the tip while he was practice stroking or had he put the ball on the table and then used his shaft/ferrule to move the ball to his desired position? I only ask this because in the area that we live in, some people like to call this a foul.

The very last match of my short lived TAP session, our team played a team that had a husband & wife on it. The wife didn't know the first thing about pool (she was my opponent) and her hubby (a very controlling jerk to put it nicely) who also didn't appear to know all that much about pool was her coach. I had ball in hand, set the cue ball down, bent over to see that I put the cue where I wanted, and then proceeded to use my shaft/ferrule to perfectly position the shot. Her hubby couldn't say anything but afterwards got onto her for not calling a foul on me.

We also played a team on the independent scotch doubles league that tried to tell me the same thing... this coming from a guy that when it was his shot would point out the balls he wanted to make in what order so that his partner (a female that was't a very good player) would know. (telling your partner was cheating unless a time out was called).

In the 15 yrs that I've been around pool and the states between SC & TX, I never once heard of this until I started playing in this one particular county of PA.
Hey Tims,

I think that is a written rule on the IPT Tour. Wonder how many players are going to get caught on that one.

Terry


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Okay...I really want to be a PROFESSIONAL pool player or doctor or lawyer...so I can golf whenever!

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02-08-2006, 07:22 PM

I don't know if it's a writen rule, but in most tournaments I play in, moving the cue ball around with the end of the shaft, (if it contacts the tip or ferrule) is a foul, however, many people don't call it. Depending on the situation, I'll call it, and up until now, whever I've called it, the tournament director has backed me up.
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Cameron Smith
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02-08-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainJR
I was at a 8 ball tournament two weeks ago. After winning my first match I next played one of the heavy favorites to win. He eventually took second. This past Saturday I was at another event and several players ask me if I was going to be as forgiving that day as I was during the hill hill game with this player. Evidently he had touched the cue ball with his tip while addressing it.

I know that you should watch the game. I don't know if I was talking or watching another game or whatever, but I didn't see this happen. When I've done this, I pick up the cue ball and hand it to my opponent. He doesn't have to see it.

P.S. Posted just so you know that I know.
Honour nothing, you should have been watching. It is your job to call fouls on your opponent when a referee is not present. To me this is no different than a ref not noticing a player travelling in basketball.
  
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02-08-2006, 08:07 PM

When you're playing, it's your responsibility to watch the play so if a foul occurs, you can call it. At the same time, I also feel that your opponent should have the class to call it on himself regardless whether you saw it or not. Unfortunately, this game is not loaded with classy people! If he was playing snooker in Great Britain, he'd be banned from the game for life. They don't have a shortage of class and to recognize that, all one has to do is look at Allison, Karen and some of the other ladies from snooker.


Rick W.
  
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02-08-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Smith
Honour nothing, you should have been watching. It is your job to call fouls on your opponent when a referee is not present.
This should go without saying. I was just questioning if it was an actual foul, knowing what some people in capt's area consider fouls.

At the Tiger Planet Pool tourney a couple of weeks ago two guys came up the directors table and said that player A made the 9 on the break and scratched. Player B (must've assumed that this was a loss, which it isn't) and he raked up the balls, racked them, & then broke. At this point, player A said that he was supposed to have spotted the 9 and played the rack out (which is true) and that since he didn't do that, it should be a foul & loss of a game.

The tournament director asked player A why he didn't say something when player B started raking up the balls. Player A said "I wasn't paying attention". WRONG ANSWER!!! Since the balls had been racked & broken, they had to play the game from there.

Anytime you're in a tournament or gambling or whatever your choice of playing style, you should always pay attention when your opponent is shooting. Not everyone is honest enough to call themselves on a foul.
  
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02-08-2006, 08:31 PM

Well, I would call a foul on myself and I have done it many times. I saw George Breedlove called a foul on himself when Alex the Lion was not even watching. To me, that is class and sportmanship, and is more important than winning or losing.
I have addressed this issue before on this forum when I was the person who paid attention and called a foul on my opponent and he just plain refused to admit it. It was not about double hit but was an obvious foul when his cue ball did not make contact with a cushion after making contact with the object ball. He just told me his cue ball did make a contact and since no one saw it, it should go to the shooter.
I think if the players do not have any sense of integrity, nor the concept of the importance of sportmanship, then they will cheat one way or another.
In my opinion, unless you have a ref watching all the shots, the cheater will always find a way to cheat whether you pay attention to the shot or not. Like I said, even if you have watched all the shots and saw a clear foul, the player can still refuse to admit it.
It is bad for the game and its image. I wish there is a way to stop this kind of behavior.
Richard
  
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02-08-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberly
.
.
.
At the Tiger Planet Pool tourney a couple of weeks ago two guys came up the directors table and said that player A made the 9 on the break and scratched. Player B (must've assumed that this was a loss, which it isn't) and he raked up the balls, racked them, & then broke. At this point, player A said that he was supposed to have spotted the 9 and played the rack out (which is true) and that since he didn't do that, it should be a foul & loss of a game.

The tournament director asked player A why he didn't say something when player B started raking up the balls. Player A said "I wasn't paying attention". WRONG ANSWER!!! Since the balls had been racked & broken, they had to play the game from there.
.
.
.
Hi Timberly,

I thought that only the nine ball was left and that player A scratched while making the nine. Player A did not spot it and player B eventually racked the balls and broke. Player A then tried to call a foul on Player B for not spotting the nine.

Some players in Player B's shoes will just spot the nine and shoot it to avoid any concession confusion. It is really Player A's responsibility to spot the nine. Player B probably could have even called a concession on Player A for not spotting and allowing him to break.

Maybe someday tourney directors won't have to babysit! Ok, I'm dreaming a little bit...

Andy
  
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02-09-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alinco
Hi Timberly,

I thought that only the nine ball was left and that player A scratched while making the nine. Player A did not spot it and player B eventually racked the balls and broke. Player A then tried to call a foul on Player B for not spotting the nine.

Some players in Player B's shoes will just spot the nine and shoot it to avoid any concession confusion. It is really Player A's responsibility to spot the nine. Player B probably could have even called a concession on Player A for not spotting and allowing him to break.

Maybe someday tourney directors won't have to babysit! Ok, I'm dreaming a little bit...

Andy
I was sitting next to Nick when they came over to the table & that's the way that I understood it to happen. There were a lot of people there & it could get fairly loud... it's possible that I misunderstood that part but I could've sworn player A said he broke, made the 9 and scratched.... maybe Nick remembers??? I'm obviously getting old & losing my mind already.
  
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