Foul!!??
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Foul!!?? - 02-08-2006, 05:55 PM

Has this been discussed B4? Has it been resolved with certainty?

In 9-ball league play a (lets say) a 3-9 combo presents itself. 9 ball near a corner pocket, 3-ball 2 feet away at off angle such that after making the 2 you have to cut the 3 to the right to contact the 9 that cuts to the right to go in the pocket. Opponent lays cue on table with tip next to 3, sighting at the necessary contact point on the 9. He leaves cue on table, then views necessary cueball path to hit 3 at contact point defined by tip of cue next to 3 ball. Picks up cue, fires, makes 9 ball. Legal? or foul?, or "depends"? on local rule?
  
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02-08-2006, 05:58 PM

imo, its fine unless he purposefully puts a little chalk mark with his cue in front of the 3 to aid him.
  
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02-08-2006, 06:00 PM

Depends on what rules you are playing by. Many professional rules do not allow you to lay your stick on the table without gripping it. Some do not allow the bridge to be laid down either. The reasoning is because when they can be placed on the table, the shooter can then walk around to the other end of the table and look at the shot head on and that can be used as an aiming technique.


I put the Mental in Ornamental
  
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02-08-2006, 06:00 PM

There are many cases which are close calls, but when a guy puts his cue down, uses it to measure an angle, walks around the table... that is a foul.
  
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02-08-2006, 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackmsuckr
Depends on what rules you are playing by. Many professional rules do not allow you to lay your stick on the table without gripping it. Some do not allow the bridge to be laid down either. The reasoning is because when they can be placed on the table, the shooter can then walk around to the other end of the table and look at the shot head on and that can be used as an aiming technique.
Absolutely! Within the WPBA rules, laying your cue on the table and letting go of it is considered a foul by "Measuring". I remember Candi Rego discussing this during a Player's Meeting with NEWT. She got called on this foul.

I didn't know that just laying the bridge on the table is a foul. Really? Wow, they're getting so..so..sooooo....

Nevermind.

Barbara
  
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02-08-2006, 06:19 PM

LINDA
That's my point exactly- it IS an aiming device- a static aiming device left on table as you walk around table and confirm/refine final aiming for the shot.

P.S. Nice to have met you and Aunty Dan at Danny K's Last Wed. Good Shooting!! Ramin hits em pretty decent. Hope you had some luck at Hardtimes as well.

3RAILKICK
  
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02-09-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackmsuckr
Depends on what rules you are playing by. Many professional rules do not allow you to lay your stick on the table without gripping it. Some do not allow the bridge to be laid down either. The reasoning is because when they can be placed on the table, the shooter can then walk around to the other end of the table and look at the shot head on and that can be used as an aiming technique.
This is exactly as I understand the 'rules'. When in doubt, I use the Worlds Standardized / BCA rules at :

http://www.bca-pool.com/play/

In the General Rules of Pocket Billiards, rule 3.42 (Devices) says :

"Only the cue stick may be used as an aid to judge gaps or as an aid to aligning a shot., so long as the cue is held by the hand. To do so otherwise is a foul and unsportsmanlike conduct."

While at the BCA site I learned another rule, one that some may find useful or at least interesting. You gotta use the right colour of chalk ! Rule 1.4 (b)Equipment Restrictions on Chalk says "player .... may use his own chalk, provided its color is compatible with the cloth. "

Dave
  
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02-09-2006, 08:19 AM

Just ask Rodney Morris, he was fouled according to the rule, in WPC 2003 (or something) in a L32 match against Alex Pagulayan... at hill-hill !

Rodney didn't protest, he knew the rule and just smiled like saying "why did I just do that". Well, he was hooked and buried on the shot but at least he would've had a change to hit the ball without making that foul.

If you play by BCA/WPA rules, it's a guaranteed foul.


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Personally ...
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Personally ... - 02-09-2006, 08:42 AM

I think it should be illegal to lay any part of the cue on the table. Too many players try the little back and forth for a little chalk mark on the cloth, and then act surprised when they are called on it. What is the rule in regards to putting a chalk mark on the cloth at the aiming point on an object ball?


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02-09-2006, 01:16 PM

Personally, I'm not so sure I would even care that much if someone did mark the table with a chalk mark. If a player is at a level that they need that chalk mark to make the balls, I think I can probably take 'em
  
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02-09-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot9
What is the rule in regards to putting a chalk mark on the cloth at the aiming point on an object ball?
3.43 ILLEGAL MARKING
If a player intentionally marks the table in any way (including the placement of chalk) to assist in executing the shot, it is a foul.

See above for BCA-pool link. Note that this is in the General section, and applies to all games unless allowed under a specific games rules (8-Ball for example). I don't believe that any game allows marking the table.

Dave
  
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02-09-2006, 03:13 PM

As I was perusing the BCA rule book on this I noticed that I cannot find the old rule which use to state that a foul had to be called prior to the next shot being executed. I can no longer locate this rule. Does anyone know if it has been eliminated or have I just missed it?

Randy G., you out there?

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02-09-2006, 03:59 PM

Oops, found it! It is in the Eight Ball rules (4.20 under "note") and says: "all infractions must be called before another shot is taken, or it will be deemed that no infraction occurred."

Strange that this is just an Eight Ball rule. What prevents a yahoo from waiting for you to pocket the nine ball and saying: "You fouled on the 7?"

I know as soon as I post this I'll find the answer to that, but I have to go to a meeting so if someone else finds it first feel free to label me an idiot. The family did so years ago.

I suppose it would fall under the sportsmanship rule if nothing else. (The late call, not me being an idiot. That falls under the heredity rule.)

-Jerry
  
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02-10-2006, 01:19 AM

Unfortunately, the World Standardized Rules sometimes do not address an issue directly or clearly, and the referee or the players must rely on references in a rule and/or the intent of the rule to make a decision.

Several rules (2.9, 2.16, 2.26, 4.20) show there is an intent that all fouls must be called before the next shot is taken or the foul is considered to not have occurred, regardless of what game is being played.

Rule 2.28, unsportsmanlike conduct, could come into play if a player persists in this behavior.


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02-10-2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3RAILKICK
LINDA
That's my point exactly- it IS an aiming device- a static aiming device left on table as you walk around table and confirm/refine final aiming for the shot.

P.S. Nice to have met you and Aunty Dan at Danny K's Last Wed. Good Shooting!! Ramin hits em pretty decent. Hope you had some luck at Hardtimes as well.

3RAILKICK
Thanks 3 railer,

I won a few matches at Hard Times. It was very nice to meet you as well!

So did you tell your opponent that it was a foul for laying his stick on the table?


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