Palmer Model M - "Dennis Fieber"

Type79 · Apr 23, 2015

(I did not post this in the Wanted/For Sale Section because I want others to be able to respond and comment.)

This auction was started a few days ago by a seller claiming ignorance of cues and not using the clearest photos. For those not familiar with this particular Palmer, it is quite desirable in good condition.

The bidding has been spirited which makes me wonder whether those bidding are aware of the problems with this cue.

To people familiar with Palmer cues it is apparent from the pictures that the following are areas of concern:
1) Butt cap is described as chipped.
2) Butt has been disassembled and the upper wood ring reassembled backwards/upside down.
3) Forearm is described as cracked. "Crack near the center"
4) Needs a handle replacement. Pictures clearly show this. Seller: "Cue is out of round."
5) Rings above the wrap are cracked.
6) Will need a rewrap following the handle replacement.
7) Needs to be refinished.
8) One shaft is missing. All M's were delivered with two shafts.

This is already bid up to $920.00 which is quite high considering the extent of the costly repairs needed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/POOL-CUE-OR...P-PEARL-LOOK-INLAY-COOL-vintage-/171762803318

terryhanna · Apr 23, 2015

The butt on that cue looks warped bad to me

Type79 · Apr 23, 2015

Emotions Running High

Hopefully these bidders are cuemakers.

$1,250. and counting.with 5 1/2 days to go.

ideologist · Apr 23, 2015

terryhanna said:
The butt on that cue looks warped bad to me

Yeah, the A-joint is bent something serious. Lots of parts need to be replaced.

I was a buyer at $700. This new price is bonkers.

Ken_4fun · Apr 23, 2015

I would like to have the cue, but agree that repair costs would probably make it a pretty expensive cue.

Cues like this are like buying an old car, if you can see lots of stuff that needs to be repaired, there is probably more issues that are unseen.

I wish you all the best of rolls,

Ken

jhanso18 · Apr 23, 2015

I really like this cue.

Type79 · Apr 23, 2015

Proficient Billiards

They are beautiful cues in nice condition.

Here are pics of one that Scot of Proficient Billiards refinished.

pwd72s · Apr 23, 2015

Wish I had a better camera than my point and shoot...my model M...bought new, never refinished...just placed in the closet for decades after I quit playing because of no time. Can't sell it..that's my name under the clear plastic ring.

Agreed..the ebay one has seen much better days.

I'd urge those unfamiliar with Palmers to not confuse collectability with Playability. For playing, my Josey is a better cue than my Palmer.
But then, the tips on my Palmer are over 40 years old..originals.

TATE · Apr 23, 2015

Looks like somebody stepped on it. The cue needs major surgery and a lot can go wrong (just ask Mike Webb!).

I had a cue maker contact me. He had shattered a forearm working on a customer's M. I sold him a good spare I had, just the forearm with joint and handle, for $1200. Believe me, that was a bargain.

The other thing that can go wrong is the same guy who put the butt together wrong also may have superglued it together - which makes the repair a lot more difficult.

pwd72s · Apr 23, 2015

TATE said:
The cue needs major surgery and a lot can go wrong (just ask Mike Webb!).

I had a cue maker who shattered a forearm working on a customer's M. I sold him a good spare I had, just the forearm with joint and handle, for $1200. Believe me, that was a bargain.

The other thing that can go wrong is the same guy who put the butt together wrong also may have superglued it together - which makes the repair way more difficult.

Yep, unless one has the skill with cues that "Gas Monkey" has with cars, I'd suggest staying away from this one...

jhanso18 · Apr 23, 2015

the more I see it, the more I like it.

Kickin' Chicken · Apr 23, 2015

Jay and all;

This is such a beautiful model and yes, this particular one has seen some abuse or neglect.

You and Chris (and some others here) are very aware of the values of these old collectibles. When I see auction prices going way over what they should on items that I'm knowledgeable about, my first thought is the seller has shill bidders helping him out.

Could just be emotions are running high but shill bidding is always a possibility.

best,
brian kc

jhanso18 · Apr 23, 2015

does anyone build anything similar to this cue?

fan-tum · Apr 23, 2015

Is there a more beautiful cue than the M?

TATE · Apr 23, 2015

jhanso18 said:
does anyone build anything similar to this cue?

A few copies have been made as tributes by cue builders, but otherwise, no.

The way the forearm is made is: wavy cuts were bandsawed free hand by into an ebony block. Wide veneers were then sandwiched and the block was glued up. The block was turned and cut up for the various sleeves. I was told they were only made by Eugene Balner himself. This process is similar to inlay "bandings" made in the old days of glued up re-sawn stock.

Type79 · Apr 23, 2015

TATE said:
A few copies have been made as tributes by cue builders, but otherwise, no.

Here is Paul Rubino, Mark Kulungian & Joe Van Buren's interpretation/extension of the theme affectionately referred to as the Model 21. This was made from original Palmer parts.

Yummy.

2strong4u · Apr 23, 2015

For those who are not aware...EVERYBODY ON EBAY uses shill bidders to drive up the price of merchandise. When the shill bidder gets the bid up high enough they disappear. If the shill bidder wins, the seller cancels sale and the cue reappears next week. Pretty simple.

If people would all just wait until the closing hour to bid this wouldn't be so common.

2strong4u · Apr 23, 2015

Kickin' Chicken said:
Jay and all;

This is such a beautiful model and yes, this particular one has seen some abuse or neglect.

You and Chris (and some others here) are very aware of the values of these old collectibles. When I see auction prices going way over what they should on items that I'm knowledgeable about, my first thought is the seller has shill bidders helping him out.

Could just be emotions are running high but shill bidding is always a possibility.

best,
brian kc

Smart man!

Type79 · Apr 24, 2015

Another collector shared a response he received from the seller. which to summarize, stated that she would not respond to specific questions regarding how the cue rolled or it's amount of lift off the table.

She further stated that she provided "plenty of photos and stated to "bid accordingly".

Her final comment was this:
"I have already had two collectors tell me just from viewing the photos it will need a repair that will be a few hundred dollars but is well worth it."

Scot at Proficient once dropped the comment to me that Model M's are a more difficult cue to refinish which I would interpret as meaning that additional refinish costs would be involved.

My tally on the repairs to this cue along with sourcing an original second shaft is ~$750. I shared the pics with a cuemaker yesterday to get his opinion. He thought $750 was in the ballpark, but added that having the cue in-hand might reveal additional problems.

My take is that bidders in this auction have not fully read and interpreted the sellers vague description nor fully examined the pictures.

Thankfully, this cue is personalized which will always make it traceable as it changes hands in the future.

Type79 · Apr 24, 2015

2strong4u said:
For those who are not aware...EVERYBODY ON EBAY uses shill bidders to drive up the price of merchandise. When the shill bidder gets the bid up high enough they disappear. If the shill bidder wins, the seller cancels sale and the cue reappears next week. Pretty simple.

If people would all just wait until the closing hour to bid this wouldn't be so common.

If this is shill bidding, it's a poor example of it.

The previous high bidder retracted his bid and the current high bidder is a consistent bidder in Palmer auctions.

Palmer Model M - "Dennis Fieber"

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