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Bank and Kicks table adjustment help needed
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EDRJR
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Bank and Kicks table adjustment help needed - 07-10-2016, 08:46 AM

I've been playing on Diamond Red Label tables lately. NONE of the diamond systems I've used in the past work. Everything comes up short or WAY short. Are there systems that work well for these tables? Any adjustments I've tried will work for very similar shots, but not across the board for all shots in that system. For example, a simple long rail kick to the corner pocket may need a +1/2 diamond from 40 to 0, but a kick from 20 to zero needs none. Should the adjustments come as a %? Shallow first rail kicks need a much different adjustment than a steep approach angle. I've been watching the one pocket players, but judging from how many are actually pocketing balls rail first, I'm not sure they're holding any secrets back. Thanks in advance for any help or tips.
  
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Scott Lee
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07-10-2016, 09:11 AM

Ed...There's no secrets. Every table is different. Oftentimes the same table plays differently from day to day. Let me come help you, next time I come to Cape Coral. It's been several years since we worked together. I now live in Clearwater, so I'm close to you.

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07-11-2016, 10:35 AM

Try this video out: https://youtu.be/xCKWfU15jc4?list=PL..._Dabvqo7SnL2ml

It shows a lot of different adjustments.
  
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07-11-2016, 10:42 AM

I might get some hate for this comment, but here goes: aim to get the ball closer to the pocket. I find every time I start to use a 'system' to help me bank I miss more. when I shoot a bank and miss it, I try to note what speed and english I used, and then remember to add more or less next time given the same parameters. If that is a system, thats the only system I use. I use my personal history plus expectations and shoot the cue ball. That's it.


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Bob Jewett
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07-11-2016, 11:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDRJR View Post
... For example, a simple long rail kick to the corner pocket may need a +1/2 diamond from 40 to 0, but a kick from 20 to zero needs none. ...
If I understand correctly, that's just plain goofy. does 40-0 work like that for all 4 possible kicks (left/right head/foot)?


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07-11-2016, 12:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by billiardthought View Post
I might get some hate for this comment, but here goes: aim to get the ball closer to the pocket. I find every time I start to use a 'system' to help me bank I miss more. when I shoot a bank and miss it, I try to note what speed and english I used, and then remember to add more or less next time given the same parameters. If that is a system, thats the only system I use. I use my personal history plus expectations and shoot the cue ball. That's it.
That is all fine and dandy if you are shooting on the same table day in and day out. If not, then you can spend 8 hours trying to figure out a table and still not be good at it.

The fewest variables you have to use from table to table the more consistent you are going to be which is why pros will tell you to bank firm as it lessens all the other variables.

If the table is a half diamond off, then there is probably something seriously flawed with that entire setup.
  
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ShortBusRuss
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07-20-2016, 05:46 AM

My advice is... Don't play on red label Diamonds, if you can help it...

And here's why: (Disclaimer: I don't play as bad as I pretend to on AZ Forum...)

I had a red label Diamond in Florida when I lived there, and took a year off after being in Iraq for two years. I had bought the table while I was in Iraq, and didn't realize how poorly they banked.

I practiced it on that table for a few months before DCC that year.. Here are my results in two big matches:

This was the year John Morra won the Bank division at DCC. I played him in the first round of the One Pocket. I had him down 2-1, with SVB and Brandon Shuff shark-eying the crap outta the match. (They were #2 and #3, respectively, in the points behind John.. I ended up losing the match. Ken Schuman called a close hit foul on me in each of the next two games.

I put a 4-pack on Joey Gray to lead him 5-2 in the 9-ball. He ended up playing perfect from that point on to win.

I am giving these results in order to say this. I fully believe that the reason I did not take a few scalps that year was because of practicing on a red label Diamond, when everyone else was playing on blue labels.

I literally could not make a cross-corner bank against John Morra. He got multiple chances after my missed cross corners to move the ball out of the pocket and stay in the game. This is such a BIG thing in One Pocket, that this cannot be understated...

In the 9 ball, any time I was going to hit the rail with any speed, it caused a big "jump" in my stance, because the red label rails literally pick up speed when hit directly. I had a chance to go up 6-2 on Joey Gray, and I jumped on this sort of stroke and ended up jawing a ball.

I have since played on blue label, VERY TIGHT Diamonds in Colorado, and found I was able to play extremely well, with almost no practice.

Stay away from red labels, at all costs. They can have an extremely negative impact on your game.

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Bob Jewett
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07-20-2016, 07:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
... rails literally pick up speed when hit directly. ...
A small nit here. No rail literally picks up speed when hit directly. The typical rail returns the ball at half the speed the ball has before hitting the cushion. If a rail returns the ball at 60% it will appear that the ball is picking up speed because you are used to 50%.


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07-20-2016, 07:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
My advice is... Don't play on red label Diamonds, if you can help it...
And here's why: (Disclaimer: I don't play as bad as I pretend to on AZ Forum...)
In the 9 ball, any time I was going to hit the rail with any speed, it caused a big "jump" in my stance, because the red label rails literally pick up speed when hit directly.
Short Bus Russ
Like Bob said, it isn't going to happen because physics won't allow it. What you are actually experiencing is the ball staying on the rail for a shorter period of time and thereby giving the illusion of gaining speed when it comes off the rail. Baseball fans noted this same effect back in the sixties when Astro-turf was introduced.
As for the rest of it, maybe you do play as bad as you pretend.
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07-21-2016, 06:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDRJR View Post
I've been playing on Diamond Red Label tables lately. NONE of the diamond systems I've used in the past work. Everything comes up short or WAY short. Are there systems that work well for these tables? Any adjustments I've tried will work for very similar shots, but not across the board for all shots in that system. For example, a simple long rail kick to the corner pocket may need a +1/2 diamond from 40 to 0, but a kick from 20 to zero needs none. Should the adjustments come as a %? Shallow first rail kicks need a much different adjustment than a steep approach angle. I've been watching the one pocket players, but judging from how many are actually pocketing balls rail first, I'm not sure they're holding any secrets back. Thanks in advance for any help or tips.


Ed,
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