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Should pros be allowed to rob amateur events?
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Should pros be allowed to rob amateur events? - 10-15-2017, 10:34 AM

Is this good for the sport?

Here in the Northwest we have the nicest pro you would ever want to meet. He takes home a lot of the cheese from day job player events.

Is this right? If not where do you draw the line?

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10-15-2017, 10:59 AM

In my opinion it should just be pool, the best guy wins. Yes they should be able to play
  
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10-15-2017, 11:23 AM

They should not, however in the pool world 'professional' is meaningless.

See golf...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_golfer
  
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Pros and amateurs
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Pros and amateurs - 10-15-2017, 11:29 AM

This is one of the reasons why FargoRate came about

It is definetly why CSI endorses and supports the Fargo system.

It is better for the overall growth of pool

Mark Griffin
  
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10-15-2017, 11:57 AM

Countless times on here I have read comments regarding league players like
...

Quit leagues ....play tournaments

Stop hiding behind handicaps and get in the grease


Play tournaments

To be a better player you gotta play better players

Play for money


The consensus seems to be you expect a lowly league player to get out of his element and play in situations where he does not have a chance of cashing in

Pay your dues and improve to where you can be competitive with us more serious players.

Here we.have a thread started debating whether a high level player should be allowed to play in a tournament that others " day job fellas " dont have a chance of cashing in.

What happened to stepping up ?

What happened to get in the grease?

What happened to pay your dues and improve in order to be competitive ?

Kind of ironic that you have a thread on the main page more or less stating that league players complain about having no chance in a tournament with "just " players and now you have a thread about " day job " players....love that terminology lol.....complaining about having no chance in a tournament with a pro.
  
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10-15-2017, 12:01 PM

When Shane was living in Fort Collins and playing-winning a lot of tournaments around here, it seemed like it was good for pool.
But that was Shane who is very likable, a good ambassador for the game.

Danny Medina played in many local tournaments here in Denver, and I think guys enjoyed being able to say... "I played Danny Medina last night"


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10-15-2017, 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Griffin View Post
This is one of the reasons why FargoRate came about

It is definetly why CSI endorses and supports the Fargo system.

It is better for the overall growth of pool

Mark Griffin
I would say that it's good for the "sport" of pool. However, for the better amateur players that like to make money gambling and playing in handicapped tournaments, I know some that don't like it. For the obvious reason that with a very accurate Fargo Rating, they just can't get as many games unless they give up the "world" in weight and they feel that their rating equalizes things too much in the tournaments.

For me, I don't mind being rated extremely accurately and being in really competitive games, because I don't depend on pool to make money. (Disclosure -- I do not have a Fargo Rating right now).


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10-15-2017, 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Griffin View Post
This is one of the reasons why FargoRate came about

It is definetly why CSI endorses and supports the Fargo system.

It is better for the overall growth of pool

Mark Griffin
Meaningless untill data is more widely collected though.
  
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10-15-2017, 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Griffin View Post
This is one of the reasons why FargoRate came about

It is definetly why CSI endorses and supports the Fargo system.

It is better for the overall growth of pool

Mark Griffin
So what is the end game vision of Fargorate and pool? All CSI matches at every level being played in real time with Fairmatch? Will this be good for pool? Or will it run off the cream?

Will including league play in the ratings make them more or less accurate? Will being able to affect your own rating downward in real time via league play sandbagging not be noticed by those most willing to do such a thing? I have some serious questions about all of this.

I have not made a conclusion personally about the basic question of this thread. It's complicated and it's a mixed bag.

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road closed - 10-15-2017, 01:08 PM

Having a reward for playing high level pool is good for the game. When up and coming players see top players winning tournaments, making money, and traveling the world, it encourages them to want to get to that level. Watching top players quitting pool at early ages and getting jobs or switching to poker isn't good for the game.

10 years ago I was winning a lot of local tournaments. It was really good for my confidence, and I was able to make some extra money regionally. In turn I would fire at the US Open, Seminole events, etc. I had the funds to play and I had the confidence of having won the last couple of tournaments I had played in. I remember feeling like a winner, having a little spring in my step as I walked into the pool hall.

In the last 5 years I have all but quit playing locally due to the lack of open events. The local handicap tournaments have gotten to where the top players no longer have an edge. I have given up 3 games to 8 against players that can run multiple racks from the break. I lost, lost, and lost. It got to the point that it affected my confidence, I no longer felt like I was a good player that was going to come with the shot for the win, I just felt like I was a big guy with my hands tied together being picked on by people weaker than me. I forgot how to expect good things to happen. I finally decided not to play them anymore. Now I play only 1-2 tournaments that are open with no handicaps per year. Otherwise I practice in my basement.

I can't imagine that is good for pool. You can say that 'people won't play if it's not handicapped', but that might be because there is no longer a reason to put in your dues because there is no reward at the top. If the reward for being a top player is being barred or hogtied then why should they step up and try to get better?

In an ideal world there should be both a bottom down and a top up approach, meaning reward for being at the top and some things to encourage people to take a shot. But I really do believe the best encouragement for people to take a shot is a reward for being at the top.

Too bad I don't think that's possible anymore. One of the biggest rewards for being at the top when I was up and coming was being the man to beat. Being the best money player in the local scene, the one that stepped up to play the out of towners, the one that was always in the biggest action. It used to be they were like celebrities. Now no one cares, they can see better matches on YouTube and people that could never play at that level still think "Oh, he's nothing compared to Ko Pin Yi". I've seen the finals of tournaments go from packed crowds in the 90s to empty seats. Top on travel expenses, recession, poker, attention spans/technology, and whatever else you want to throw in and I don't think this is turning around.

So in short, yes, I do believe top players should be able to play in tournaments. But I have given up any and all expectations of that and it wouldn't surprise me if my town didn't even have a 9 foot table left in 10 years. If you play pool these days you'd better do it for love of hitting balls by yourself, because there ain't much else out there to gun for.
  
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10-15-2017, 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorider View Post
Countless times on here I have read comments regarding league players like
...

Quit leagues ....play tournaments

Stop hiding behind handicaps and get in the grease


Play tournaments

To be a better player you gotta play better players

Play for money


The consensus seems to be you expect a lowly league player to get out of his element and play in situations where he does not have a chance of cashing in

Pay your dues and improve to where you can be competitive with us more serious players.

Here we.have a thread started debating whether a high level player should be allowed to play in a tournament that others " day job fellas " dont have a chance of cashing in.

What happened to stepping up ?

What happened to get in the grease?

What happened to pay your dues and improve in order to be competitive ?

Kind of ironic that you have a thread on the main page more or less stating that league players complain about having no chance in a tournament with "just " players and now you have a thread about " day job " players....love that terminology lol.....complaining about having no chance in a tournament with a pro.
Funny, ain't it?


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10-15-2017, 01:24 PM

I have no problem with pros playing in any event that isn't strictly designated as amateur-only.


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10-15-2017, 01:26 PM

I'd love to see some structure to the world of pool. Unfortunately there really isn't a single governing body ... in fact they can't even agree on various rules between leagues. I think a good foundation and set of guidelines would lead to a point where it was actually profitable to become a professional pool player. (outside the "hustler" stigma).

Unfortunately - we're not at that point. There's still a ton of Cesar Morales's out there. So for now it's incumbent upon the player to know the competition and enter available tournaments accordingly.


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10-15-2017, 01:35 PM

In my area pro Jason klatt is a local, and honesty when the buzz gets around that he's gonna play in our local $30 tournament we go from 30 guys to around 60! People want to step up and say they beat him! Also it gives the newcomers something to gauge themselves against. And with the exception of the very top pros most are very beatable in a race to 5!

Handicapping pool is like handicapping a running race! Let's give the out of shape beer drinker a lap and a half head start against world record setter Michael Johnson. If the fat guy happens to win what does it mean?? We need to stop rewarding mediocrity and start rewarding the true champions!
  
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10-15-2017, 01:45 PM

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Originally Posted by mvp View Post
In my area pro Jason klatt is a local, and honesty when the buzz gets around that he's gonna play in our local $30 tournament we go from 30 guys to around 60! People want to step up and say they beat him! Also it gives the newcomers something to gauge themselves against. And with the exception of the very top pros most are very beatable in a race to 5!

Handicapping pool is like handicapping a running race! Let's give the out of shape beer drinker a lap and a half head start against world record setter Michael Johnson. If the fat guy happens to win what does it mean?? We need to stop rewarding mediocrity and start rewarding the true champions!
Oh sure. And I'll bet you're against kids getting "participation trophies" too. You big meanie. (</sarcasm .. I actually agree with that concept.)


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