What is it that separates the calibur of play from the top players of yesteryear, from the players today? Is the USA going to have another Buddy Hall, Mike Sigel, Nick Varner, Johnny Archer, Kim Davenport, etc.? It seems like the other countries are beginning to make a joke out of American poolplayers.
The USA Needs Players to Fill the Shoes of Sigel, Varner, Hall, Mizerak, etc.
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
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cuetechasaurus said:
This pool thing is worldwide now, babee! How many Taiwanese champs did you hear of from 1985. Hell, how many Philipinos were on the US radar in TX in 1985
Top% players you mention tho...
YOu have good rep coming you way
Wait for this generation to come out... it takes a while for reincarnations of greenleaf, wanderone jr., etc. to be born into the sport. Every generation gets smarter and more skilled than the last (don't tell the old-timers that!) so it's only a matter of time before the machines of the billiards world show themselves.
well in asian and some european countries, they treat billiards as a state or government sponsered program. In taiwan, they take kids who have potential at billiards in middle/high school and give them professional instruction. in germany you can join the army to play pool. it only makes sense that with the amount of interest thier countries put in billiards that they wipe the floor with thier american counterparts where even most of the pros/top regional players basically learn by gambling.
That is a very interesting question, for which I imagine there are many different answers. I don't see as many poolrooms of the quality that nurture and produce future champions as I used to. Very few rooms today inspire serious learning and developing of a strong pool game. Most rooms seem to be "entertainment centers", where one can play video games, watch sports, chase women, get drunk, and maybe shoot a few racks. Some rooms hardly seem to bother with 9-foot tables anymore. I was 25 years old before I ever saw a juke box, bar box, or liquor in a poolroom. It was rare to see a woman in attendance.cuetechasaurus said:
The owners can't be blamed. They're just trying to make a buck. There is just not that much demand for serious poolrooms. Therefore young players are simply not getting good quality exposure to excellence in this difficult game.
The U.S. has had a long history of great poolrooms and players, going back at least to the late 19th Century. I suspect pool is relatively new in the Orient and Europe. Consequently there is a new excitement, a new fever, which we here in the States have let wane. My guess is that there are plenty of good quality rooms in other parts of the world, and that the game is taken very seriously.
There may be some more subtle reasons. I don't want to open up a Pandora's Box, but the U.S. as a whole has lost much of it's spirit and the desire for excellence that once was so prevalent-- that was so widely aspired to. The constant drumbeat from the media and from our enemies within try to convince us every day that we're second rate, that we're evil, that the desire to be the best is passe and undesirable in these modern, progressive times.
Hopefully all these elements will gradually come around, and we can start to see our young pool talent developing again.
Doc
What about Hoppy's kid? He any good?
Back in the early 20th century of billiards, USA was considered as the domination of Pocket and Carom Billiards. It was where we had the Schafers, Hoppe, Greenleaf, and those greats that made this game the way it was. Then the next half century came upon. Billiards has uprooted into another dimension that even so, we are so rare with tallent. USA is very cocky and not putting enough effort that other contries are. I mean, take a look at Taiwan. Seriously, do you imagine a small country putting such great effort as if there was no tommorow during the WPC. And comparing that to USA, they showed the showmanship that this game put up. I mean, seeing Earl S. put his panties all up-in-a-bunch really just told me that he just "spits" at his competitors and shows no respect. The fact is that if he has problems from whatever aspect of his life is, take it out of the door and not to his opponent. As far as those other talents like Deuel, Jones, and other American cueist, they still need time and discipline to be greats. Archer, as far as he is concerned, need a good look in the mirror and say to himself if he wants "IT" bad!
-- I am entitled to express my own opinion, if you have yours, drop me a line.
-- I am entitled to express my own opinion, if you have yours, drop me a line.
Practice
Maybe it's also the fact they practice, practice and more practice. Drill after drill after drill, Day after day, year after year. Not just throw the balls on the table and shoot them in at warp speed. The European players also play alot of straight pool. Look at the top European players and they are ALL play great straight pool.
Most don't even gamble, their are exceptions though like Sandor and Petroni,Reimering and others!
That's why I don't buy into the rule that you have to play for money to get seasoned BS.
When Hohmann won the WPC in 2003 the most of the members here were saying who is this guy, he was lucky, a one tournament wonder and bla bla bla! YOU STILL BELIEVE THIS NOW???????
It's not just happening in pool either. How long has it been since the Americans won the World Championship in Basketball, Hockey, Volleyball and even Baseball. Tennis, since Sampras retired ???????? Ryder Cup
Maybe we should practice, practice, practice and stop treating every athlete like a prima donna.
I heard on the news yesterday that the Boston Red Sox are going to pay 50 million dollars to some Japanese TEAM for the right to even negotiate for a pitcher of theirs. If they can sign him it will probably be another 50 million dollars. Hellooooo.
300 million people and they can't find a pitcher in America.
Sorry for the rant, didn't have my coffee yet!
no-sho
Maybe it's also the fact they practice, practice and more practice. Drill after drill after drill, Day after day, year after year. Not just throw the balls on the table and shoot them in at warp speed. The European players also play alot of straight pool. Look at the top European players and they are ALL play great straight pool.
Most don't even gamble, their are exceptions though like Sandor and Petroni,Reimering and others!
That's why I don't buy into the rule that you have to play for money to get seasoned BS.
When Hohmann won the WPC in 2003 the most of the members here were saying who is this guy, he was lucky, a one tournament wonder and bla bla bla! YOU STILL BELIEVE THIS NOW???????
It's not just happening in pool either. How long has it been since the Americans won the World Championship in Basketball, Hockey, Volleyball and even Baseball. Tennis, since Sampras retired ???????? Ryder Cup
Maybe we should practice, practice, practice and stop treating every athlete like a prima donna.
I heard on the news yesterday that the Boston Red Sox are going to pay 50 million dollars to some Japanese TEAM for the right to even negotiate for a pitcher of theirs. If they can sign him it will probably be another 50 million dollars. Hellooooo.
300 million people and they can't find a pitcher in America.
Sorry for the rant, didn't have my coffee yet!
no-sho
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I 2nd that motion above.
Is it possible that, American pool has not declined, but rather stagnated, while international pool has advanced? It would help if, America appreciated its great players. I mean, we have won the Mosconi cup and I'm sure the winning participants could walk down Mainstreet USA, and not even be recognized. There once was a day when, young kids thought 'maybe I could be the greatest player and be famous'. Today that is a pipe dream. Greatness needs to be recognized, and not just monetarily.cuetechasaurus said:
Tracy
RSB-Refugee said:
The Mosconi Cup is a prestegeous prize for pride and honor (and maybe a prize amount of money) for the great Willie Mosconi, but that is just USA vs. Europe. Why not make it an all out mélle and just bring in Team Phillipines and Team Taiwan (or whatever team in Asia [notice that I didn't say Team Asia]). Really wake up the US into realizing what real pool is all about and make them work hard for it.
There first has to be a platform where each level of skill is pushed to the next level. In the US there is no structure and no realistic setting of goals presently in place to create players like the Asian part of the world plus our economy at present has changed our billiard landscape. Can't think of one pro that would groom his kid to be a pool player in the states, its been this way for along time. Sigel put a golf club in his kids hand from and early age, because "there" lies structure, opportunity and reward.
Island Drive said:
That's what makes this country one of a kind. We have the freedom to do whatever we want to do. And this is where it leads to downfall. I mean, if there were a system where billiards is a sport and not acutally a fallback game where friends just whack balls all around a stupid coin-op table, then we have hope that there will be a (so to speak) dream team. If there were rivalry groups from around the country and maybe a few from each state that meant about the experience of playing and not just always about playing for money (and I stress not just always because pressure is always something to conquer) then becoming the dominance of billiards is in the cards. Sofar, as said above, Island Drive, the economy is decipating the "game" of billiards and as soon as we know it, it will not be terriably big as we all thought it should be.
Well firstly things like the IPT bullshit doesn't help the image of pool at all...secondly pool isn't supported by the US probably because of lack of pool being considered a serious professional sport...my biggest pet peeve is that there is definaltely no structure for the players...no 'umbrella' organization to support the growth and general public education of where professional pool is going...without putting pool in the mainstream...it's not going anywhere...while not the most entertaining thing to watch there is much room to grow and promote the industry as a whole....mainstream sponsoring of tournaments is a key to moving pool forward...TV coverage has helped but production of what's aired is lackluster and could easily made more entertaining...look at golf...forget 'TV rounds' have early round matches shown and jump from match to match...how hard is that??
I got a little off track there but all the above could certainly be reasons why much less Americans excel as much as our foreign counterparts...
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I got a little off track there but all the above could certainly be reasons why much less Americans excel as much as our foreign counterparts...
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I agree, IPT really put a strain to TV programing... as well as what the above said!
Island Drive said:
Never heard of Sigel having any kids.
It's hard to make a living in the USA
Table time can kill your practice time to get really good. You can go on the road until they know who you are like John Schmit until he entered the bigger tourneys. You have to win or finish well at the tourneys to make a living at it.
We don't have a sponser like Puyat Sports as the Philipinos do.
Table time can kill your practice time to get really good. You can go on the road until they know who you are like John Schmit until he entered the bigger tourneys. You have to win or finish well at the tourneys to make a living at it.
We don't have a sponser like Puyat Sports as the Philipinos do.