embarassing 9-ball spot question

mikepage said:

So I've been playing 14.1 with a local guy after tuesday night league. He goes to 125; I go to 75. He's now beat me five times in a row. Then he whines about the spot every time after he beats me. Last night, when I offered to play some straight pool, he called and told his stepdad he would *not* come over to celebrate the guy's birthday but will play me instead. I said *that* tells me more than anything else what he thinks of the spot... ;-)

Last night, after I lost at 14.1, we played some 9-ball. I got him to give me the last four, though it was work I'll tell ya... I got up a few games at 10 a game. Then he upped it to 20 a game and I got up a few more till closing time.

Here's my problem. I actually think we're pretty even at that spot, but I don't think he'll give it to me again.

I need some ideas for 9-ball spots that are similar to the last four and maybe sound better but really aren't. Help me out please.

I know I know. Bowling... Golf...
Yes I know this is pathetic.

BTW, I told you about the nickle I lost at straight pool so you'd feel sorry for me.


Help!

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Wait, let me get this straight here... You lost five in a row to this guy and YOU'RE worried about losing the action??? Dude, I would sit tight and say, "I want the last 4 or I'm playing my girlfriend and going home."

If you need that much of a spot from the man...then ask for the wild 7 & 8. That way you can play a combo or roll your money ball without having to wait until the last 4 are left. A good option.

It really depends on two things: a) what is your ultimate goal b) do you intend to continue playing both games in a session?

It sounds like this guy might be too conservative to allow you to make a game in which you are heavily favored, so I would assume that your ultimate goal is just to keep the game as fair as possible. If not, and you're looking for some sort of bet that might prompt this guy to go off, then I'm not sure what to tell you. You have to keep in mind that, if the guy is that much better than you at playing the game, then he might be that much better at matching up as well, which puts you at a disadvantage before you even screw your cue together.

Now, if you do plan on continuing to play both games in a session, then it sounds like you're already doing something that keeps you fairly close as far as the $ is concerned, or at least it could be close if you arrange the bets properly. You could just say "if you're going to continue to only give me 50 pts. at 14.1, then I'm going to continue to need the last 4 at 9-ball". If, however, you're planning on playing 9-ball exclusively, and if he offers you the last 3 next time (which is what I would do) then I would take VC's advice and counter back with the wild 7 & 8. That spot should put you somewhere between the last 3 and last 4, and should end up being a tough game for both of you. Don't accept a counter offer of the "called 7 & 8" though (which is what I would counter with, lol) because there's a huge difference b/w those two spots.

Good luck!

Varney Cues said:

If you need that much of a spot from the man...then ask for the wild 7 & 8. That way you can play a combo or roll your money ball without having to wait until the last 4 are left. A good option.

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Another option I like is "the break and the wild 8". The break is huge in 9 ball and you'll have 2 money balls.

Bob Jewett said:

You could try games on the wire. There was a player around here who shot about the 8 above me. He liked to cheat and had an IQ that's a low winning score at rotation. Anyway, he thought 3 on the wire in a race to 7 would be fair. After two sets, he changed his mind.

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My god Bob, that is a HUGE spot! I played a German second tier pro who had a top 16 finish in his only American tourney (Sands Regency) with that spot and he HATED the action.

Russ

To the OP, you really need to sit down and analyze your game and his game fully to arrive at a fair spot.

How are you getting the games you win in 9 ball? Are you running up to the last four when he doesn't make a ball on the break? Is he making a mistake, and you are taking over from there?

Can you put down the long shots and get position? Does he play safe exceptionally well? Does he dog it sometimes on the last few balls? Do you?

All of these factors influence the spot. I once played a friend of mine some cheap One Pocket that quickly escalated to some serious money, and I ended up spotting him 9-6 and the breaks. He got offered the breaks early in the session because he was either hitting a weak break or scratching off the break.

Become a student of the game. When you watch a live game or an Accu-Stats video, try to imagine the stroke and tip position on every shot.

When watching real people play, watch how smoothly they hit long shots. Watch how smoothly they hit draw shots. Watch how well they hit cut shots that have to be hit with spin for position. Are they pocketing the ball in the center of the pocket?

All these things you can use to beat your opponent. He may be a strong player, but if you key in on his weakness and leave him shots he has a much higher chance of missing, you can get him into "dog stroke" fairly easily.

An example of this is when I played One Pocket and would be down to the last ball when playing an opponent. It would be uptable right in a pocket, and I would pocket it, and leave him on his side of the table, with the cueball in the jaws of the pocket.

Your opponent is supposed to play safe in that spot, but my opponent kept putting a super stroke on the shot and cutting in backwards into his corner pocket to win the game. If you know the shot, you know you come an inch or two from scratching in your opponent's pocket, and that when you hit it PERFECTLY.

I got kind of tired of it when he hit it the third time in a row, and I told him, "Great shot, man! Of course, you know the first time you scratch in my pocket going for that shot, you'll never be able to make that shot on me again."

And I was right. Remember, observation skills and a quick wit are all that is needed to make a good game.

Good luck.

Russ

As a spot, I'd only take games on the wire if I were confronted against a superior player. Getting last few balls is embarassing, plus you're not really playing pure 9ball and you are definitely not improving your game.

For example, he gives you 3 games on a wire in a race to 9. If he wins the set, the handicap moves to 4 games, if you win, the handicap becomes 2. And so on...hopefully when you improve your game, the handicap becomes 0.

matching up...

SCCues said:

Another option I like is "the break and the wild 8". The break is huge in 9 ball and you'll have 2 money balls.

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yes... the 8 and the breaks is a pretty hefty spot in 9 ball... but that depends on two things... the break is only good if you have a monster break or you can run out very consistently... so i wouldnt recomend this guy adjusting to the 8 and the snaps from the last 4... something that would be close to the last 4 (and actually depending on your speed might be more weight) would be the 7 the last 3 and the breaks... if he asks you to adjust then you could tell him you will adjust either when you get the money back you lost to him playing straight pool or say... yes... i will adjust... we can bet 50 a game this time...

???????????

He's beat you 5 times in a row playing straits if you play 9 ball you still
need last 4 you're still stuck. If you play anymore straights sound like you
need an adjustment there for sure. If you don't you're are going to turn losing into a business. Thats something you don"t want to do if you are
a gambler.


Pinocchio

mikepage said:

So I've been playing 14.1 with a local guy after tuesday night league. He goes to 125; I go to 75. He's now beat me five times in a row. Then he whines about the spot every time after he beats me. Last night, when I offered to play some straight pool, he called and told his stepdad he would *not* come over to celebrate the guy's birthday but will play me instead. I said *that* tells me more than anything else what he thinks of the spot... ;-)

Last night, after I lost at 14.1, we played some 9-ball. I got him to give me the last four, though it was work I'll tell ya... I got up a few games at 10 a game. Then he upped it to 20 a game and I got up a few more till closing time.

Here's my problem. I actually think we're pretty even at that spot, but I don't think he'll give it to me again.

I need some ideas for 9-ball spots that are similar to the last four and maybe sound better but really aren't. Help me out please.

I know I know. Bowling... Golf...
Yes I know this is pathetic.

BTW, I told you about the nickle I lost at straight pool so you'd feel sorry for me.


Help!

Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

If you think the spot in nine-ball is a fair game then why try to adjust that? Where you're getting robbed is in Straights. If my memory serves me correctly, your high run for the year is somewhere in the fifties. If you're getting spotted fifty balls to 125 and he's robbing you that obviously means that he plays pretty sporty. I would stand up on keeping the last four in nine-ball, and I would try to see if I could get something like forty or fifty no-count in Straights. Good luck, and remember that no action is better than bad action!

Bob Jewett said:

You could try games on the wire. There was a player around here who shot about the 8 above me. He liked to cheat and had an IQ that's a low winning score at rotation. Anyway, he thought 3 on the wire in a race to 7 would be fair. After two sets, he changed his mind.

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If you’re the last 4 under someone you’ll need quite a few games on the wire

Keep It Right Where It Is!

Here is my two cents.
He robs you at 14.1 and you rob him at 9ball. If he wants to take some weight back in 9ball then you ask for more weight in 14.1. It's that simple.

Spot ...

Mike ... 4 on the wire to 9, or the wild 5 & 7 with alternate breaks. I won't tell you how I did it, but it is done with mathematical probabilities. amd of course the probabilities are based upon subjective estimates of various factors, i.e., estimating he runs out 90% of the time when he gets an open shot in 9 ball, etc..

SCCues said:

Another option I like is "the break and the wild 8". The break is huge in 9 ball and you'll have 2 money balls.

Click to expand...

Having the break is a handicap if you can't run out.

This is the order in which I would ask
Wild six and the last 3
Wild six
wild 7/8
last three and the call six
call six



You could add in the snaps too but thats pretty tough. Sounds like this guy plays jamup to give you the last four. Is he a pro player? In my experience, negotiating a spot with someone who can give you four balls is difficult. They have at least the same and likely much more experience at handicapping than you and its not like you will be able to sneak something by them that sounds better than the last 4 but is really the same. Like you will be able to sneak that one by...ehhh sounds iffy. That said, it certainly doesnt hurt to ask.