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berlowmj
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Question head ball or 2nd ball 8 ball break - 05-15-2007, 07:51 PM

Do you choose between them & use one under all circumstances or do you select one over the other in different circumstances.? For example, bar table vs 9 footer or tight rack vs loose etc?
  
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05-15-2007, 08:21 PM

If I'm going for the 8 on the break I go second ball. The second ball break has a greater chance of scratching though. If I'm playing safe I use headball. Also if the rack is loose I will usually use second ball.
  
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05-15-2007, 10:53 PM

BB 2nd ball, especially with heavy CB.

9' headball on tight table. Maybe 2nd ball on 5" pockets.


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05-16-2007, 05:28 AM

depends
running out hitting head ball opens up the rack better,
playing safe and possibly making 8 ball early, second ball
(no scratch if you draw the q ball off to the rail.

hitting head ball also opens it up for opponent too
hitting second ball keeps the balls tied up better
  
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05-16-2007, 07:18 AM

I use the 2nd ball break on bar boxes only. On 8 or 9 footers, there's an increased chance of scratching, so I prefer hitting the 1st ball.


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05-16-2007, 09:48 AM

So, I tried the 2nd ball break last night on a barbox with a phenolic tipped cue (new Guylassy).... do you guys that use the 2nd ball break use a playing cue or something able to put more spin on it then a phenolic tip? I did not have much luck with this break with this cue.

I did however have lots of luck with a power break on the head ball.
  
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05-16-2007, 10:53 AM

If you are really going to blast them, then head ball. The second ball break requires more control of the cue ball, IMO. Without control there is the scratch and the possibility of bouncing off the table. I also find that the 2nd ball break will sometimes send most of the balls to one side of the table. Could be beneficial if you aren't able to run out consistently and are playing a strong opponent.
  
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05-16-2007, 10:55 AM

2nd ball on the break is pointless. Yes, you have better odds of making the 8 on the break but its still so infrequent that its not worth running the risk of scratching over.

Best bet is to pllace the cueball about an inch to either side of the headspot and aim to hit the lead ball head on (no angle) as hard as you can. Do it right and the balls will spread better than aiming for the second ball. This way, you can avoid the scratch, spread the balls better, and have a much greater chance of running out.
  
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05-16-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pharaoh68
Best bet is to pllace the cueball about an inch to either side of the headspot and aim to hit the lead ball head on (no angle) as hard as you can. Do it right and the balls will spread better than aiming for the second ball. This way, you can avoid the scratch, spread the balls better, and have a much greater chance of running out.
In theory I agree w/this approach, in practice I'm preternaturally good at blowing up the rack and not making a damn thing. I'll keep working on that break in league and use the 2nd ball break when it matters.
  
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Break Box
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Question Break Box - 05-16-2007, 11:59 AM

If breaking from the rail does not produce an advantage can anyone explain why the now defunct IPT decided to use a break box?
  
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05-16-2007, 10:09 PM

The phenolic is meant only for getting max speed max speed with 0 english.

The 2nd ball break is just the opposite, you want some english (to avoid the scratch and move the cueball back into the rack) and you DON'T want full force. I forgot who said it, but someone pointed out that you should hit with 50-60% of your usual break power for this break. If you try full speed you're gonna jump or scratch a lot. So you almost NEED a regular tip to do 2nd ball breaks.

I don't agree that it's a waste of time. Some people's mileage will vary, especially depending on the table... but even if the 8 never goes, I always move balls out of the triangle area, and I get a great spread. On my normal break (which is just what pharaoh uses) I seem to end up with a bunch of balls clustered up towards one side rail. It's like half the rack just moves together as one big cluster. On the 2nd ball break I drop more, with better frequency, and they just don't seem to cluster because they're always getting kicked around at these crazy angles. Occasionally I halfass it but if it's done correctly I know it's at least as good as a normal break spreadwise, with the added bonus of the occasional 8-ball.
  
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2nd ball break
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Wink 2nd ball break - 05-19-2007, 11:32 PM

Thanks to your encouragement, I have been experimenting with the 2nd ball break using the rail bridge. Scratching & miscuing are stil not problems, but CB placement could be better. I had some excitement like 3 & 4 balls going in on the break & even one 8 ball. However, with the additional practice my headball break also improved. I'm still a confused novice.

Possibilities for English remain limited by my phenolic tip, but perhaps this will be overcome as my stroke improves.

I suppose that my rail bridge from the rail on the 2nd ball break means that my practice can be generalized to the 9ball break. This seems like an advantage. But there are more clusters. More confusion, but increasing skill.

Tonight I attended a party in a luxurious basement where I knew the host had a 9' table. I brought my weapons (Sledgehammer & Universal Smart Shaft) & felt anti-social until a French guy challenged me. He was impressed. The quest for mastery in this game is changing my lifestyle. Ordinarily, I would have spent the evening engaged in political discourse.

Excuse the ramble. Your sage comments always welcome.
  
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phenolic tip & 2nd ball break
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phenolic tip & 2nd ball break - 05-19-2007, 11:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CreeDo
The phenolic is meant only for getting max speed max speed with 0 english.

The 2nd ball break is just the opposite, you want some english (to avoid the scratch and move the cueball back into the rack) and you DON'T want full force. I forgot who said it, but someone pointed out that you should hit with 50-60% of your usual break power for this break. If you try full speed you're gonna jump or scratch a lot. So you almost NEED a regular tip to do 2nd ball breaks.

I don't agree that it's a waste of time. Some people's mileage will vary, especially depending on the table... but even if the 8 never goes, I always move balls out of the triangle area, and I get a great spread. On my normal break (which is just what pharaoh uses) I seem to end up with a bunch of balls clustered up towards one side rail. It's like half the rack just moves together as one big cluster. On the 2nd ball break I drop more, with better frequency, and they just don't seem to cluster because they're always getting kicked around at these crazy angles. Occasionally I halfass it but if it's done correctly I know it's at least as good as a normal break spreadwise, with the added bonus of the occasional 8-ball.

CREEDO has a point. But,2nd ball breaking with the phenolic would be the best of both worlds. Is it a feasible objective?
  
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05-20-2007, 01:46 AM

You've got to find a spot where the table is "leaking" from. That's the sweet spot. I don't like to use the 2nd ball break, because you lose the cueball with it. If I play a soft safety break, I like to try to make the headball in the side, so at least I might get a chance to choose the superior group (which of course can change anytime during a game, especially with lots of clusters) of balls. Another downfall about using the 2nd ball break if the head ball is not frozen to the first two balls, is that if the back row of balls are loose, the rack will be a slug no matter what. Alot of people fail to look at the back row of balls. I just got home from Vegas and I found the back row of balls loose quite often when inspecting the rack.


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05-20-2007, 02:12 AM

Being a big guy I usually cram the head ball in local bar tourneys. For the Open in Vegas this past week I side breaked every break. If I made a ball I could usually get through the clusters, If not make a ball then my opponent has to try to get through the clusters. Usually resulting in them not clearing the whole table but leaving me usually an open out after they made a few balls.


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