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Vahmurka
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World Ten Ball Rules Announced - is 9-Ball WC history now? - 02-01-2008, 11:56 AM

I've just read the news on main AZB page, sort of a press release by Ian Anderson, WPA president. It is already known that the Philippines will host first 10-Ball World championship approved by WPA, and they won the tender to run it for five years.
Nothing new about the rules themselves, but if there is going to be a 10-Ball WC by WPA do we actually need a similar 9-Ball event? The games are almost alike, except for breaking and running-out is more challenging in 10-Ball. Hardly anyone would object that 9-Ball is easier than 10-Ball, hence the 10-Ball world champion would be considered "true" compared to 9-Ball champion IMO.
So don't you think 9-Ball title will not be very fascinated any longer since there is going to be more prestigious one?

Not saying here that 9-Ball is a dead game, not at all. But it could be played only on national level and in poolhalls by everyone, yet 10-Ball becoming a game for the pros.

Some relevant info here: "Jerry Forsyth's Essay on 9 and 10 ball" thread
and the essay itself
  
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Titles....
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Titles.... - 02-01-2008, 02:51 PM

The more the better...

We have...Derby City too...as well as...

US OPEN 9 ball
US OPEN Bar Table 9-ball
US OPEN Bar Table 8-ball
New US OPEN Bar table 10-ball

World Open 10-ball (Shane currently I think..)
WPA 9 ball
New WPA 10-ball

World 8 -ball
Or is it the WPA 8-ball

Why not add or have a US OPEN 8-ball as well...

also, how about adding...
WPA Bar table 8, 9, and 10 ball


also, we have the Olympics...

US OPEN Banks
US OPEN Straight Pool ( currently Rafael Martinez)
US OPEN one pocket


lucky us...we even have the Reno OPEN...

I am sure I have forgotten some as well as some that can be added...

Titles, Titles, Titles...

The more the Better I say...

Lets not forget Derby City too....
Mr. J.

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02-01-2008, 07:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahmurka
... Nothing new about the rules themselves, ...
There are a few changes from nine ball. The rules are available as the last section in the WPA rules on the WPA website.

Ten ball is a call shot game, except you do not have to call the ten on the break for it to count. Since the game is call shot, you can call safe, pocket the lowest ball and move the cue ball to a safe position. Since you are allowed to call only one ball, some two-way shots that are OK in nine ball are no longer available in ten ball.


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02-01-2008, 08:44 PM

Since the game is call shot, you can call safe, pocket the lowest ball and move the cue ball to a safe position.

This is going to add a new twist to the game and I haven't made up my mind on it yet but the 1 thing I know I'm not going to like is that when a player is faced with a medium tough shot and with tough position also its going to make it much easier for them to play safe. And I think this is where a better player will loose a slight edge. I know the shot will be available to both players but its usually these tough situations that can seperate one player from another.


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02-01-2008, 09:20 PM

ok, here's my problem with making 9ball or 10ball a call-shot game.

your hooked behind a ball, you kick, make the OB but, it goes in a different pocket. Now you basically just gave up ball in hand, when you did nothing wrong. Or same thing happens and you also make the 10ball too, not only did you not win the game, but you give up ball in hand and basically lose that game.


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02-02-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by StormHotRod300
ok, here's my problem with making 9ball or 10ball a call-shot game.
your hooked behind a ball, you kick, make the OB but, it goes in a different pocket. Now you basically just gave up ball in hand
It's just the shot passes to the opponent, it's not b-i-h. But still it's quite unnatural IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett
There are a few changes from nine ball. Ten ball is a call shot game
Yes, I noticed that upon reading the rules. That's weird really. Some time ago I was wondering if ten ball is just a nine ball game with an extra ball (because initially I considered it was to be played with no push out, cb behind the string after a foul, etc. - to be different from nine ball). And I got a reply from a BCA technical director responsible for rules, don't remamber the name now, that yes, basically ten ball is just an extra ball, push out is there and so on.
Bob, could you elaborate on the reason ten ball was intended to be a call shot game? In that case if a player plays safe and accidentally pockets some ball - in nine ball the hook is on himself; in ten ball which is call shot game the hook is still on his opponent (balls pocketed on a safety remain pocketed). Is that fair?
And, safeties are way too easier if a rotation game is a call shot.

Call shot ten ball then turns my initial question upside down. In my view such a game would be easier. I also would love to hear Jerry Forsyth in this thread, if it is what he was dreaming of.
  
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02-02-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett
There are a few changes from nine ball. The rules are available as the last section in the WPA rules on the WPA website.

Ten ball is a call shot game, except you do not have to call the ten on the break for it to count. Since the game is call shot, you can call safe, pocket the lowest ball and move the cue ball to a safe position. Since you are allowed to call only one ball, some two-way shots that are OK in nine ball are no longer available in ten ball.

This is bad, very bad !

For years I have been pushing the WPA rules of 9-ball because I liked them and the fact that it was an outside ruling body making a standard set of rules.

As for the new 10-ball rules, I am actually surprised they would make this dramatic of a change (Somebody did not do their homework). It is completely uncalled for and extremely bad for players looking to progress to 10-ball from 9-ball.

I also do not believe that these rules will encourage any organization, tour or tournament to use them here in the US.

Call shot? make a ball and play safe? Make a good hit on a ball after kicking 5 rails into a cluster making a ball and if you didn't call that exact ball in that exact pocket you give up your turn ??? WTF, save this crap for the 8-ball game not 10-ball or any rotation game.

Somebody please make these rules go away !


This is my honest personal opinion.
Mj

Last edited by MikeJanis; 02-02-2008 at 02:13 PM.
  
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02-02-2008, 02:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett
...Since the game is call shot, you can call safe, pocket the lowest ball and move the cue ball to a safe position...
I'm really surprised by this. IMO, this is just a bad idea. Having this rule would not penalize bad/careless position play at all. The position play fundamentals for rotation games can be thrown out the window...they're not completely necessary to win a rack. You can just pocket each ball and play safe for each shot.

For example, a weaker player gets careless on his position play from the 8 to the 9, getting himself way too straight to get from the 9 to the 10. With the call shot rule, the weaker player doesn't have to attempt position at all, but just call a safety and freeze the CB to the rail, and have his opponent take the difficult 10.

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My prediction is that this call-shot rule will eventually change, and I'm guessing sooner than later.

If the WPA's aim is to reduce the luck factor in the game, I've always thought the much better way is to have the breaker maintain control of the table regardless if a ball is made on the break or not, and play alternating breaks.
  
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02-02-2008, 02:25 PM

jsp, that is an excellent illustration.

Mj
  
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02-02-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsp
For example, a weaker player gets careless on his position play from the 8 to the 9, getting himself way too straight to get from the 9 to the 10. With the call shot rule, the weaker player doesn't have to attempt position at all, but just call a safety and freeze the CB to the rail, and have his opponent take the difficult 10.
nice example to illustrate the way to kill the game

Quote:
If the WPA's aim is to reduce the luck factor in the game
10-Ball itself reduces luck factor, it is harder to play (if played like 9-Ball). Harder to get a good break, play shape after a break and have a guaranteed position/run-out. Make it "call the winning ball" if you like, but don't imply safeties like in 8-Ball.
  
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02-02-2008, 03:25 PM

.................

Last edited by Neil; 07-27-2012 at 06:37 AM.
  
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02-03-2008, 02:13 PM

these rules are terrible, if you like to play gsmes with lots of rules, like Mike said go play tavern 8ball and call kisses, if your going to pot the ball clean or by hitting the pocket facing, etc. The guy who knows the ruleds better is the winner. in general the more complex the rules the lesser the player, express rules are just fine,

for examlple if a player breaks makesd 3 balls on the break and scratches with htese rules how is the second player going to run out, especially id the potted balls are low numbered balls, that fould benefit the giuy sho fouled on the break,

calling the pocket and ball is cool for 1Pocket(obviously) or 8ball but not rotation games. with these rules if you call the ball andd pocket do you need to call a hiss of the backside to carom the OB into the pocket?

too many complications for a simple rotation game,

i just dont understand why they want to make a rotation game complicated, in rotation games the idea is to make balls first and move second,

additionally adding one more ball to 9ball is a big enough change as it is using the 9ball rules, I remember when express ruled popped up, it was great, rotation games are shot makers games let them shoot, if you foul well suffer from your mistake.

seems to me the rules changes serves some group of people, not the players, i'm not knocking that(its their business) but turning it into a different proudct/game dosent benefit the players or rail birds, and they should come first-what the players want, as a player I want the same rules as 9Ball because they allow me a shot maker to shoot, I hated the old rules and when they changed I was happy, i'm all for new games but not changing what we have that clearly works. Jump cues are another topic that will never be settled like Rowe vs. Wade.


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02-03-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJanis
This is bad, very bad !

For years I have been pushing the WPA rules of 9-ball because I liked them and the fact that it was an outside ruling body making a standard set of rules.

As for the new 10-ball rules, I am actually surprised they would make this dramatic of a change (Somebody did not do their homework). It is completely uncalled for and extremely bad for players looking to progress to 10-ball from 9-ball.

I also do not believe that these rules will encourage any organization, tour or tournament to use them here in the US.

Call shot? make a ball and play safe? Make a good hit on a ball after kicking 5 rails into a cluster making a ball and if you didn't call that exact ball in that exact pocket you give up your turn ??? WTF, save this crap for the 8-ball game not 10-ball or any rotation game.

Somebody please make these rules go away !


This is my honest personal opinion.
Mj

I see nothing wrong with the new rules..


Id really like to see more 7 ball tourney's as well as 10 ball...

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Angry 02-03-2008, 04:59 PM

I think this call shot format definately favors the weaker players, because everytime a difficult position play comes up instead of going for the shot the weaker player will just call safe and pocket the ball leaving the other player hooked or a tough shot.

I can just see it now the finals of the world ten ball championship it's hill hill Yang vs. Earl. Yang makes a three rail position shot from the eight to the nine and gets straight in with both balls frozen to the end rail and the ten on the center diamond at the other end, so Yang calls safe and pockets the nine leaving the cueball frozen to the rail. Who thinks Earl doesn't explode.

Call shot in any rotation game is insane. This rule ruins the game.

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02-04-2008, 12:44 PM

even if they are going to exclude fluked shots by making it a call shot game leave those called safeties alone! It ruins the nature of rotation game like people mentioned already.
  
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