5/16 14 pin

snipershot

snipershot

Go ahead.....run for it.
Silver Member
I started off using 3/8 10 pins, but switched to 5/16 14 a few months ago and i like them much better. I still use the bigger pin on some sneakys, but if im making a fancier cue, i use the smaller pin. A couple years ago i overheard a conversation between a local cuemaker and a few cue guys and they were all bashing the 5/16 pin, and praising the radial and big 3/8 pins. I didnt understand it then, and i dont understand it now. Is there an advantage to using the bigger pins? If the 5/16 pins were good enough for a lot of legendary and famous cue makers, why would people knock these pins?

Joe
 
I think the 3/8 pin looks nicer especially if it's polished brass........... but that's just me.

Of course, when the cue is screwed together, you can't see it...LOL

The function is the same.

Kim
 
I use the 3/8x10 .308 minor pin. I like the look and the fit. They also weight less than a 5/16x18..14 setup with the insert. Everyone has their preferences.
Dave
 
5/16x14 pin

I use both of these. 5/16x14 and 3/8x10. This is just my opinion, but there is less materials to be used when using the 3/8 pin. No insert for the shaft, less moving parts. Some customers want the 5/16x14 or 18 because that is what they are used to or have played with for years.
 
DoubleD said:
People put too much stock in the type of pin they use. They all do the same thing and I defy anyone to prove to me that they change anything other than the balance point.

dld
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"prove to me that they change anything other than the balance point."

Isn't that enough? I use a brass radial pin in most cues. Although some other pins now have a "barrel" the radial was the first to incorporate this feature and that is why I adopted it's use in 98 or 99. With the alignment barrel a mechanic/builder has to be a complete hack not to be able to install them perfectly straight and centered. I also feel that since there is no metal insert to interfere with the transfer of vibrations emitting from the tip on contact there is a little cleaner feel through the joint but as you said, it would be hard to prove. Just my 2 cents worth.

Dick
 
DoubleD said:
Yes, changing balance point is definitely enough.

My theory is that the huge, heavy brass pin impedes transfer of vibration through the cue...and here is why: When you add a proportionally large mass in a vibrating system, you create an artificial node--basically that part does not want to move, forcing the rest of the system to move around that node.

The alignment barrel is a good feature, I'll presume that you've read enough of my rants to know of my feelings about the rest of the radial pin.

dld
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DoubleD,

I know you have a solid background in engineering, so I'd like to pursue this a little further, based on your statement above:

My brass 3/8-10 .308 minor pins weigh 1.4 oz. My finished cues weigh around 18 oz with no weight bolt. So the pin is around 7.78% of the total weight. Proportionally large? Agreed, weight and mass are not quite the same, but they are close.

Also, the cross-sectional area of a 3/8 pin is about 0.1104 sq in compared to the total cross sectional area of a 0.840" joint (0.554 sq in) or 19.9%, leaving 80.1% of the total system area for the vibrations to move around and through the cue.

Now I'm not calling you out, not even disagreeing with you, just thinking that this discussion has merit. I know that many times when someone with a deeper experiential background tries to explain something, there are some assumed facts that the student doesn't have in his experience. Sort of like when a 7 tries to coach me (4) at the table.

Thanks for any more input - or take it off line if you pefer.

Gary
 
A 5/16 pin and insert weighs pretty close to what a 3/8 pin does so the balance change is minimal. But the feel is different. How can I prove it? Probably can't but it is true whether anyone believes it or not.
 
snipershot said:
I started off using 3/8 10 pins, but switched to 5/16 14 a few months ago and i like them much better. I still use the bigger pin on some sneakys, but if im making a fancier cue, i use the smaller pin. A couple years ago i overheard a conversation between a local cuemaker and a few cue guys and they were all bashing the 5/16 pin, and praising the radial and big 3/8 pins. I didnt understand it then, and i dont understand it now. Is there an advantage to using the bigger pins? If the 5/16 pins were good enough for a lot of legendary and famous cue makers, why would people knock these pins?

Joe
Click to expand...

Is 5/16 14 easier to install b/c there is more play between it and the insert ?
All you need to do is make sure the faces are square ?

I believe a lot of of the earlier makers also installed the pin on their blanks before they were joined to the forearm. Seen it done that way by a maker who is probably closing on a million dollars in lifetime sales.

Probably one advantage of the bigger pin is less likely to bend while sanding.
 
cueman said:
A 5/16 pin and insert weighs pretty close to what a 3/8 pin does so the balance change is minimal. But the feel is different. How can I prove it? Probably can't but it is true whether anyone believes it or not.
Click to expand...

I agree. I make inserts out of phenolic and plug the butt and the shaft and make my 5/16 14 joint flatfaced. I cant prove that it hits better, but i personally feel like theres a lot more vibration and tone transfered into the butt by doing this. I could do the same with a 3/8 10 pin, but i like the amount of surface area contact i have with the smaller pin. I suppose i could make the plug larger, but the wall of the cue is already pretty thin, and i think if i increased the plug diameter to say, 9/16 instead of 1/2 inch, id be asking for trouble.

Joe
 
With the big pin and flat root you can mate the pin to a soft insert. I think this allows for a more intimate fit, transferring the hit better. With the steel on brass you have more clearance between the two parts, the pilot is the only part that has a close fit. As to the weight issue, when using the big pin there is no reason it has to be solid.
 
cueman said:
A 5/16 pin and insert weighs pretty close to what a 3/8 pin does so the balance change is minimal. But the feel is different. How can I prove it? Probably can't but it is true whether anyone believes it or not.
Click to expand...

I agree with Chris. Whether the fact that a lot cuemakers(including me) use a stainless collar when using 5/16 14 joint is actually what emphasizes the difference, I'm not sure but I believe so.

Mario
 
Please, let's stop b***s****ing ourselves:

5/16-14 vs. 3/8-10
Pro taper vs. European
Laminated tip vs. solid leather
Master chalk vs. Kamui
Long ivory ferrule vs. short plastic ferrule
LD shaft vs. regular maple
Stainless steel collar vs. plastic
light cue vs. heavy

None of this stuff makes any impact on a player's ability to pocket a ball. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. I'll grab a warped house cue with a dried out tip and beat many players that own fancy custom cues.

The best tip, ferrule, shaft, joint collar, joint pin, etc. is whatever the customer wants.

Just my 2 cents worth. :)
 
jschelin99 said:
Please, let's stop b***s****ing ourselves:

5/16-14 vs. 3/8-10
Pro taper vs. European
Laminated tip vs. solid leather
Master chalk vs. Kamui
Long ivory ferrule vs. short plastic ferrule
LD shaft vs. regular maple
Stainless steel collar vs. plastic
light cue vs. heavy

None of this stuff makes any impact on a player's ability to pocket a ball. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. I'll grab a warped house cue with a dried out tip and beat many players that own fancy custom cues.

The best tip, ferrule, shaft, joint collar, joint pin, etc. is whatever the customer wants.

Just my 2 cents worth. :)
Click to expand...

<... That must be why everyone only buys one cue in their lifetime as every cue plays the same as every other cue. :rolleyes:
 
bdcues said:
<... That must be why everyone only buys one cue in their lifetime as every cue plays the same as every other cue. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're saying. But, apparently you didn't understand what I was saying. Go re-read my post. I'll wait... Are you back?

Yes, different cues hit differently. Yes, each person has their individual set of likes and dislikes. However, that has nothing to do with pocketing balls. Arguing over joint pins is like arguing over chocolate vs. vanilla and blondes vs. brunettes.

;)
 
jschelin99 said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're saying. But, apparently you didn't understand what I was saying. Go re-read my post. I'll wait... Are you back?

Yes, different cues hit differently. Yes, each person has their individual set of likes and dislikes. However, that has nothing to do with pocketing balls. Arguing over joint pins is like arguing over chocolate vs. vanilla and blondes vs. brunettes.

;)
Click to expand...

Now wait just a dam minute there............ there is no substitute for blondes................

LOL

Kik
 
jschelin99 said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you're saying. But, apparently you didn't understand what I was saying. Go re-read my post. I'll wait... Are you back?

Yes, different cues hit differently. Yes, each person has their individual set of likes and dislikes. However, that has nothing to do with pocketing balls. Arguing over joint pins is like arguing over chocolate vs. vanilla and blondes vs. brunettes.

;)
Click to expand...

Actually, i was just asking for some informative discussion on why some folks dislike the smaller pin. I know what you are saying, but if a cue doesnt feel, or sound the way a guy likes it to, then that will affect the mental part of his game, thus reducing his ability to pocket balls. Like John Madden says "90% of the game is half mental."

Joe
 
When Mosconi missed that 527th ball, he said " Damn, I would have made that on a 3/8 11 titanium jointed cue."
Fact.
 
snipershot said:
Actually, i was just asking for some informative discussion on why some folks dislike the smaller pin. I know what you are saying, but if a cue doesnt feel, or sound the way a guy likes it to, then that will affect the mental part of his game, thus reducing his ability to pocket balls. Like John Madden says "90% of the game is half mental."

Joe
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was being my usual smart-aleck self while trying to make a point. Sometimes the two don't mix. Yes, you are absolutely correct on the mental part.

As far as why some people don't like the 5/16-14 pin, I have no idea. Over 25 years of pool, I've played with many different cues with every different major joint pin. And I've performed well with all of them.

I just think far too many players worry about far too many tiny little things that just don't affect whether or not they pocket a ball or win a game.
 
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