9 BALL: to modify or not to modify ?

Hail Mary Shot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I had just witnessed one of the most painful match in 9-ball some hours ago. it's between Django and Nick. and to tell you how much it pains me to see these two players appear helpless while waiting for a chance at the table. surely, if either player makes a ball on the break it's almost an automatic runout. unless by a streak of misfortune, that player scratches, fouls, miscues, misses and doesn't make a ball (which is not often especially when a soft break is utilized) on the break. it doesn't matter whether your opponent is a high caliber opponent or not, as long as you make a ball on the break and have an easy layout (most often in a soft break). for some people, there is nothing wrong with this kind of strategy as long as it works and able to take advantage and adapt to the conditions. but of course, we sacrifice to witness some great 9 ball action rather suffer to watch an easy methodical layout runout in every rack because of this. most often, nothing spectacular. but does it work for the audience and the players? as some of you and I would agree, 9 Ball is an evolving game. and I won't be surprised if they make the game more difficult or challenging especially to these high caliber players playing in the WPC. inorder for it to survive and interesting, I believe some modifications are necessary. some suggestions might look silly, but it's not that far-fetch to achieve or implement. as long as it makes the game more challenging.

I wouldn't mind if the player zero-in on that contact point on the one as long as it is not hit softly. care to put a radar gun on the table? wouldn't mind it. maybe they should set a speed standard which should be met on every break, not below it. a break below that limit can be considered as a foul. so to those players with weak breaks, better start practicing asap.

slow table cloth also eliminates the possibility of the balls to spread out widely. every player would be forced to break as strong as he can to avoid clustered balls or a tight rack.

a shot clock I believe is necessary. this is to avoid players of eating too much time and be aware that this is a game between two people.

ball racking. putting the remaining 7 balls in a standard order which prohibits the player to take advantage of an easy layout. thereby making the game more challenging.

for me, these are more logical or acceptable and necessary modifications for 9-ball, inorder for it to remain intertaining and interesting.


I like 9 ball and I don't want it to die out or people to lose interest in it due to the growing methodical trend of slowbreaking. my honest observation is, the game now is more being played in a more slow and boring phase than it was more interesting to watch. just my cents. ;)
 

Cuebacca

________
Silver Member
How about placing the 1-ball in the back and making them do a kick break? :p :D

Seriously though, what you said... making a standard, difficult, order in the rack isn't a bad idea actually. IMO.
 

td873

C is for Cookie
Silver Member
Hail Mary Shot said:
surely, if either player makes a ball on the break it's almost an automatic runout.
Didn't Danny Dileberto suggest practicing the lag for this exact reason ;)

They have implemented alternate breaks to keep the big strings down, but there is something to be said about running 10 racks in a row. IMO, this can be just as exciting and beneficial to the sport as a nip and tuck battle.

If you think that today's 9 ball is not TV material, go back and watch some old school straight pool, or even some hour long 1-pocket matches. Talk about watching the grass grow... ;)

-td
 

Fixer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good point, but world-class shooters tapping balls in with half inch strokes is not the greatest ever. Look at 9-ball a la 85-98, they strung racks, but had to work a little.

I love 9-ball. Thats why I am kinda mad about it.
 

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At the highest competition levels of 9-ball (which is the WPC), the winner is usually the one who breaks better, not necessarily the one who runs out the table better. (If it were the latter, then you'd think Efren would have won more than one WPC 9-ball title by now.)

10-ball is a much better gauge of runout ability, but I feel that the winner is still largely determined by the break (again, at the highest levels of competition). Sure there is no definite wing-ball in 10-ball, but you still need great shape on the next lowest ball following the break to keep control of the table, and a lot of that is just plain luck. Not to mention the luck of actually pocketing a ball on the break.

For rotation games (9-ball, 10-ball, etc.), the winner should be decided purely on runout ability and safety play, and the break should hardly be a factor at all.

Therefore, I propose that we eliminate the majority of the luck that is associated with the break. Not only does the breaker NOT have to pocket a ball on the break to keep control of the table, the player doesn't even have to pocket the lowest numbered ball immediately after the break shot. Thus, the pushout rule goes away.

For example, after the balls are broken, the breaker is allowed to pocket the 7 to play shape on the 1. If the first to be pocketed is the 9 ball, then it immediately gets spotted for the next shot. If the player doesn't pocket a ball when not hitting the lowest numbered ball first, it would be considered a foul and the incoming player gets BIH.

Since running the table would be significantly easier, alternating breaks should be used. Running out the table after your break would be similar to "holding serve" in tennis. Since the games would be much faster, you can also have longer races, not to mention it would be much more entertaining.

As far as the other rules, keep them the same. Just some crazy thoughts. I have many more crazy ideas when it concerns tinkering with the rules of certain games.
 

9 ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
the soft break is killing the game, lets get rid of all this namby pamby, hoity toity "just barely touch the rack" scared to hit the balls full power soft break.

I wanna see people like de luna, duel, archer etc. CRUSHING THE RACK! Something needs to be done.
 

Fixer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Right you are, and I dont mind the best breakers to win matches. "I am just as good but he breaks better!" Then you are NOT just as good. The break should be important in 9-ball. But now everybody breaks great, that is faaaar worse.

Some sun-tanned guy there on holliday should not park a star in the chair. Sickens me.
 

crosseyedjoe

Anywhere but here
Silver Member
td873 said:
Didn't Danny Dileberto suggest practicing the lag for this exact reason ;)

They have implemented alternate breaks to keep the big strings down, but there is something to be said about running 10 racks in a row. IMO, this can be just as exciting and beneficial to the sport as a nip and tuck battle.

If you think that today's 9 ball is not TV material, go back and watch some old school straight pool, or even some hour long 1-pocket matches. Talk about watching the grass grow... ;)

-td

The problem WPA is facing is that they want pocket pool to be included in the Olympics game, or at least as a demonstration game if it can't be help.

They have to convince the Olympic committe that the luck factor in pocket pool is negligible, thus the tweaking of formats. The group stage format is a very nice approach. But this doesn't minimize the luck factor in the game itself (breaking most specially).

They also have to show that it's a competition against two people. That's the basic problem with long string of racks pool becomes a game of man vs the table, thus the introduction of alternate break.
 
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JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Just spot the lowest numbered ball after the break and make the breaker shoot a spot shot after the break. :)
 

9 ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Simple answer forget all this changing of rules and just get rid of the soft break end of story.

WPC's pre duel were more fun because no-one could get a shot on the 1 90% of the time like they are doing this year, its getting too predictable.
 

MasterClass

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
However much i admire those guys ability to string racks after racks, I still find the soft break extremely painful to watch. Some of them are hitting them so softly almost like little girls. I think that really kills the game.

Couldn't they make it a rule that 4 balls must hit the rails even if you make a ball or spot the 1 ball maybe 1 ball length above the original spot so that the wing balls are not align with the corner pocket?

If the world champion is going to come out of his chair breaking like a wuss, does it matter if he runs out 17 racks and win? Maybe some people enjoy watching the game like that. But i think a decent good break should be part of the game.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Nine ball is perfect. Why toy with perfection? Don't knock it, embrace it. The only change I'd make is disallowing the jump cue.
 

ella

New member
1. No more soft break..
2. Shot clock per shot (maybe 5 minute maximum or lower) but with an option of one 1 minute-extension per rack...
3. Limit the safety shot (maybe 1 or 2 per rack per player). Once you used your safety option, then once you miss, it is foul.


Advantages of limiting the safety
1. no more long hours of safety battle
2. it will be creating more great shot since safety option is limited..players will be more aggresive..It is more of a battle of creative shot than creative safety..that will be more exciting to see more great shot per rack..I know it is also great to see a good safety however I prefer to see more great shot than great safety..
For ordinary fans of pool..I think they will appreciate the great shot more rather than great safety..also, long battle of safety can be boring sometimes...

OPTION
.If you clean the table within 1 minute..plus 1 in your score..This kind of thing will encourage player to break hard for a golden break and/or hoping to sink many balls so they can clean the table for less than 1 minute....
This also help to encourage player to play more faster...It will be good for ordinary fans and good in TV..
 

skins

Likes to draw
Silver Member
maybe some changes like these would make it more interesting....

1. randomize the rack order ( including the 1 ball )......

3. make jump shots illegal.........

4. make it a call pocket game.......

just some thoughts....
 

blackeee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The object of the game is to try to make a ball on the break and run out or leave your opponent with no shot. Make one any way you can, be it hittin 'em at warp 10 or anything less. Radar gun on break speed? Gimme a break {no pun intended}. No safety battles? Tell that to Efren and those of his ilk.Slower cloth? That would eliminate 50% of the entry fees so the prize money would be less. Alternate breaks? Personally, I love to watch players string racks together. If the other guy doesn't get a shot, tough luck. Shot clock? It ain't football. No Jump cues!
 
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rayjay

some of the kids
Silver Member
1. No jump cues. Jump with your player.
2. No soft break. 5 balls to the rail.
3. 45 second shot clock, 1-45 second extension.
4. Winner breaks.
5. Random rack with the 9 in the middle.
6. Call all shots. Slop counts if called shot is made, except the 9.
:p
 

av84fun

Banned
td873 said:
Didn't Danny Dileberto suggest practicing the lag for this exact reason ;)

They have implemented alternate breaks to keep the big strings down, but there is something to be said about running 10 racks in a row. IMO, this can be just as exciting and beneficial to the sport as a nip and tuck battle.


With respect, I disagree and am glad that winner breaks is almost extinct in pro matches.

There is no other major sport that has a format wherein the person/team that scores gets to try again while the other team/person sits out.

Not baseball, football, basketball, tennis, soccer, bowling and on and on. Even in hockey, if you score AT LEAST you have to win a face off to get immediate possession of the puck again.

Winner breaks is just an age-old hustle move that operates as a HUGE advantage to the better player...especially in ahead sets.

The only similar rule to winner breaks is in 14.1 where it is possible for one player to sit out an entire "match" after the first rack which is one of the reasons that the game I started out on many years ago and still love today has all but vanished from public view.

Regards,
Jim
 

Hail Mary Shot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
av84fun said:
td873 said:
Didn't Danny Dileberto suggest practicing the lag for this exact reason ;)

They have implemented alternate breaks to keep the big strings down, but there is something to be said about running 10 racks in a row. IMO, this can be just as exciting and beneficial to the sport as a nip and tuck battle.


With respect, I disagree and am glad that winner breaks is almost extinct in pro matches.

There is no other major sport that has a format wherein the person/team that scores gets to try again while the other team/person sits out.

Not baseball, football, basketball, tennis, soccer, bowling and on and on. Even in hockey, if you score AT LEAST you have to win a face off to get immediate possession of the puck again.

Winner breaks is just an age-old hustle move that operates as a HUGE advantage to the better player...especially in ahead sets.

The only similar rule to winner breaks is in 14.1 where it is possible for one player to sit out an entire "match" after the first rack which is one of the reasons that the game I started out on many years ago and still love today has all but vanished from public view.

Regards,
Jim

how bout loser's break?
 
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