A Curious CTE Diagram

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This was posted as a testimonial in another thread. I thought it interesting that the player says you need to figure out whether the shot is thick or thin before deciding on your pivot direction. I don't recall ever seeing that step mentioned anywhere other than before you get down on the shot, certainly not in mohrt's discussion of how to use the new version of CTE. JB says this is part of the aiming process. Is it really? Is a subjective judgment of where the pocket is vs the object ball really part of CTE? Seems to me a shot that is slightly fat will require a slight pivot out while a significantly fat shot will require a significant pivot. Also, placing the bridge V "slightly" here or "slightly" there seems pretty subjective to me. Where am I going wrong here? Note to bbb: This is new information and so is not the same 20 year old argument, so relax.

Here it is:

I made this diagram for someone I've been talking to who has been having trouble. Maybe it will help you too.
Before determining where the bridge goes we must first find whether or not the shot from the sight line looks undercut (thick) or overcut (thin).
If we cut to the left the head tilts left.
If we cut to the right the head tilts right.
If we bank to the left the head tilts left.
If we bank to the right our head tilts right.
Once you've determined the proper perception (in this example I used a 15 perception) and determined if the sight line makes the shot look undercut (thick) or overcut (thin) you can decide where the bridge V goes.
Eric Naretto
CTE Drawing.jpg
 
Dan White said:
This was posted as a testimonial in another thread. I thought it interesting that the player says you need to figure out whether the shot is thick or thin before deciding on your pivot direction. I don't recall ever seeing that step mentioned anywhere other than before you get down on the shot, certainly not in mohrt's discussion of how to use the new version of CTE. JB says this is part of the aiming process. Is it really? Is a subjective judgment of where the pocket is vs the object ball really part of CTE? Seems to me a shot that is slightly fat will require a slight pivot out while a significantly fat shot will require a significant pivot. Also, placing the bridge V "slightly" here or "slightly" there seems pretty subjective to me. Where am I going wrong here? Note to bbb: This is new information and so is not the same 20 year old argument, so relax.

Here it is:

I made this diagram for someone I've been talking to who has been having trouble. Maybe it will help you too.
Before determining where the bridge goes we must first find whether or not the shot from the sight line looks undercut (thick) or overcut (thin).
If we cut to the left the head tilts left.
If we cut to the right the head tilts right.
If we bank to the left the head tilts left.
If we bank to the right our head tilts right.
Once you've determined the proper perception (in this example I used a 15 perception) and determined if the sight line makes the shot look undercut (thick) or overcut (thin) you can decide where the bridge V goes.
Eric Naretto
View attachment 608815
Click to expand...
The reason you have never seen this or are surprised by this is because you have been so filled with hatred and bombastic comments here. You do NOT have an open mind....unless you agree with the point of discussion.
This is nothing "new"...it's been around for years. You've just been asleep at the wheel.
This has been demonstrated time and time again in videos and even in the book on Using CTE to improve Your Pool Game.
CTE Book Resized smaller.jpg
 
Low500 said:
The reason you have never seen this or are surprised by this is because you have been so filled with hatred and bombastic comments here. You do NOT have an open mind....unless you agree with the point of discussion.
This is nothing "new"...it's been around for years. You've just been asleep at the wheel.
This has been demonstrated time and time again in videos and even in the book on Using CTE to improve Your Pool Game.
View attachment 608824
Click to expand...
LOL did the newbie say something? You are saying CTE has been a subjective process all the time? Question 3: Do you know what subjective aiming is?
 
Dan White said:
This was posted as a testimonial in another thread. I thought it interesting that the player says you need to figure out whether the shot is thick or thin before deciding on your pivot direction. I don't recall ever seeing that step mentioned anywhere other than before you get down on the shot, certainly not in mohrt's discussion of how to use the new version of CTE. JB says this is part of the aiming process. Is it really? Is a subjective judgment of where the pocket is vs the object ball really part of CTE? Seems to me a shot that is slightly fat will require a slight pivot out while a significantly fat shot will require a significant pivot. Also, placing the bridge V "slightly" here or "slightly" there seems pretty subjective to me. Where am I going wrong here? Note to bbb: This is new information and so is not the same 20 year old argument, so relax.

Here it is:

I made this diagram for someone I've been talking to who has been having trouble. Maybe it will help you too.
Before determining where the bridge goes we must first find whether or not the shot from the sight line looks undercut (thick) or overcut (thin).
If we cut to the left the head tilts left.
If we cut to the right the head tilts right.
If we bank to the left the head tilts left.
If we bank to the right our head tilts right.
Once you've determined the proper perception (in this example I used a 15 perception) and determined if the sight line makes the shot look undercut (thick) or overcut (thin) you can decide where the bridge V goes.
Eric Naretto
View attachment 608815
Click to expand...
Always said you have no clue about CTE lmao
 
How much do you need to tilt the head?
If you miss, do you need to tilt the head more or less?
 
JoeyInCali said:
How much do you need to tilt the head?
If you miss, do you need to tilt the head more or less?
Click to expand...
Dan White said:
We need someone like boogieman or Lou to open up his copy and find out how to calibrate the head tilt.
Click to expand...
Based on the examples videos I've seen. It take 2 or 3 shots to determine the right way to pocket the ball. Not performing the steps correctly will get you reaaaal close sometimes. Not sure what game allows a few swings at each shot before giving up the table, but I can find out what it is I'm sure to be a world champ
 
The_JV said:
Based on the examples videos I've seen. It take 2 or 3 shots to determine the right way to pocket the ball. Not performing the steps correctly will get you reaaaal close sometimes. Not sure what game allows a few swings at each shot before giving up the table, but I can find out what it is I'm sure to be a world champ
Click to expand...
How many times does a person miss when learning by hamb?
 
cookie man said:
How does it feel to know you wasted 20 years of your life on an on line forum being totally wrong and not knowing what you’ve been talking about.
Click to expand...
Feel better now? I know it's been awhile since you've used that one. I assume you cut and paste it by now instead of typing?
 
Dan White said:
We need someone like boogieman or Lou to open up his copy and find out how to calibrate the head tilt.
Click to expand...

This is like asking me if I recall seeing a mention of borscht somewhere in "War and Peace" lol.

But actually, I do recall a brief mention after the stuff about "poking your head out" (don't ask). SS says that you have to preserve the sight line and, because of the distance between your eyes and the shot, a slightly angled head is desirable. You increase the angle as you get closer to the CB and into shooting position by increasing the angle of your head towards the cutting edge of the CB. As to calibrating that, he says it'll go from "slight to moderate."

I know you're glad asked, lol.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
This is like asking me if I recall seeing a mention or borscht somewhere in "War and Peace" lol.

But actually, I do recall a brief mention in the stuff about "poking your head out" (don't ask). SS says that you have to preserve the sight line and, because of the distance between your eyes and the shot, a slightly angled head is desirable. You increase the angle as you get closer to the CB and into shooting position by increasing the angle of your head towards the cutting edge of the CB. As to calibrating that, he says it'll go from "slight to moderate."

I know you're glad asked, lol.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
We need Pete Lowe to demo it .
He ran 100 balls right after taking lessons .
 
cookie man said:
How many times does a person miss when learning by hamb?
Click to expand...
Assuming the worst wherein it's a shot that has never been encountered before and isn't something that can be managed by a small adjustment based from prior experience, it would be twice at the most. That's not to say a player will never miss that shot again in their lifetime. Just that they can develop the correct "shot picture" within those attempts. The third attempt is normally only required when they have over adjusted after the first.

That's based on my personal growth as a player. Once you start getting some time under your belt, it's a rarity to require more than 2 swings at anything to drop an unknown for the first time. That is still 1 more than the required single attempt in any game I'm aware of, but you asked me about shot making while learning, not decision making based on HAMB.

There's the nice thing about HAMB versus system. Direct feedback as to why you missed. You simply hit the ball wrong, by this amount. No miscalculation, no wrong preception, no 'which pivot'. Simply 'you missed, adjust this way'. Did you miss again..?..., 'then adjust a bit more'. The adjustments and subsequent CB/OB contact angles build your knowledge of how things work. That knowledge is then transferable to the next unknown.

I will give credit where credit is certainly do. Systems are a wild way to learn the game. It's a weird sensation to pot a ball without ever considering the pocket. That said, I wonder how much real knowledge they provide the user on how things interact on the table.
 
Dan White said:
Feel better now? I know it's been awhile since you've used that one. I assume you cut and paste it by now instead of typing?
Click to expand...
Doe
Dan White said:
Feel better now? I know it's been awhile since you've
Click to expand...
The_JV said:
Assuming the worst wherein it's a shot that has never been encountered before and isn't something that can be managed by a small adjustment based from prior experience, it would be twice at the most. That's not to say a player will never miss that shot again in their lifetime. Just that they can develop the correct "shot picture" within those attempts. The third attempt is normally only required when they have over adjusted after the first.

That's based on my personal growth as a player. Once you start getting some time under your belt, it's a rarity to require more than 2 swings at anything to drop an unknown for the first time. That is still 1 more than the required single attempt in any game I'm aware of, but you asked me about shot making while learning, not decision making based on HAMB.

There's the nice thing about HAMB versus system. Direct feedback as to why you missed. You simply hit the ball wrong, by this amount. No miscalculation, no wrong preception, no 'which pivot'. Simply 'you missed, adjust this way'. Did you miss again..?..., 'then adjust a bit more'. The adjustments and subsequent CB/OB contact angles build your knowledge of how things work. That knowledge is then transferable to the next unknown.

I will give credit where credit is certainly do. Systems are a wild way to learn the game. It's a weird sensation to pot a ball without ever considering the pocket. That said, I wonder how much real knowledge they provide the user on how things interact on the table.
Click to expand...
That’s very odd and also wrong imo that you think a system user doesn’t get direct feedback from shots. Just shows that you don’t have enough knowledge and playing time with them. For example the new CTE user would know that a miss probably occurred because he used an inside instead of outside pivot. Very correctable
As a system user we still gain all the necessary knowledge from each shot.
 
JoeyInCali said:
We need Pete Lowe to demo it .
He ran 100 balls right after taking lessons .
Click to expand...

I just don't know how this kind of approach can be promoted as something to be universally applied to all players.

One look around any tournament room and you'll see plenty of evidence players approach the table, set up, and view shots in a wide variety of ways. My other issue is that this and additional instructions SS gives on approaching any given shot could really gimp up your set up and stroke.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
I just don't know how this kind of approach can be promoted as something to be universally applied to all players.

One look around any tournament room and you'll see plenty of evidence players approach the table, set up, and view shots in a wide variety of ways. My other issue is that this and additional instructions SS gives on approaching any given shot could really gimp up your set up and stroke.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...
But then again if you watch SVB, AND NO I AM NOT IN ANY WAY IMPLYING THAT HE USES CTE, he has all the characteristics. He stands way inside the shot line, he always brings his cue in from the side. he can't help but have a slight head turn from that position. All CTE characteristics that you guys say mess everything up.
 
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