A plea to CSI regarding SVB vs Ko

MahnaMahna

Beefcake. BEEFCAKE!!
Silver Member
so get off your high horse and step down to earth ,,


ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398880974.552631.jpg
..........
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
The fact is brain surgeon I don't need you to point out the ridiculously obvious that the man is in it for the bottom line...

my comment was he did not care what others opinion was

Apparently you do need me. It may be obvious to you that he is in it for the bottom line. What apparently is not obvious to you, but should be, is that he should ONLY be in it for the bottom line.

And he does care about what other's opinions are. For many years now the public has expressed their opinion about their willingness to pay for long race PPV. Their resounding opinion is that they are not willing to pay for it. You are just mad that he isn't listening to your opinion and preference, even though it is not at all a popular one as evidenced by the dismal sales, instead of trying to do something that more people will want besides just you and a couple of others. What is so hard to understand about that?
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
Yes he should...

While this is generally true, I disagree that it is always true. He/they have already taken long races into consideration and ruled them out. Period. Why on earth would he say he will take requests for long races into consideration when he has no intention to do so? Do you expect him to lie? I think that would be even worse to lie to people and humor them when there is no genuine intention to ever do it. I think you would be better off saying we have considered it already, and ruled it out, and here is why. And that is exactly what he did.

Also, sometimes your customers have to be educated when they are wrong. They aren't wrong for having their own preferences, but they may be wrong about what is best for the sport, or what will best allow CSI to make the most money. Sometimes everybody benefits when you just educate people instead of pandering to their ignorance.

It is good business to placate your customers, it is bad business to alienate your customers and potential customers.

Besides, it is foolish to NOT take into consideration what your customers want.

You should always take it into consideration, so it shouldn't be thought of as lying.

Wanting longer races creates a definitive winner, maybe that is bad for business??? Maybe they want there to be an open question as to who is best. At the same time, having a definitive king of the hill, so to speak, would make future defeats of SVB even more tasty and good for business.

Everyone loves it and it makes them SO much more likely to purchase your product when you call their opinion ignorance that YOU must educate them on. That's a fuggin' joke.

Jaden <------MBA holder (summa cum laude) as well and it's marketing 101 not to alienate your customer base.

p.s. regardless of whether you're going to take it into consideration or not, you don't tell them they should "wipe better"(see my previous post, if you don't get the reference)....
 
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Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
There's a tendency to treat online social media like friends...

When you run or represent a business, you can't treat social media like your friends.

Hell, even employees are learning that now, since many get fired for carelessness in social media.

This forum is social media and when you represent a business, you can't treat this place like their your friends.

You treat them like it's a business.

If you go into a store and you tell them as a customer that you would like them to change something about their store, like say adding a wifi to a coffee shop; if they responded with "pppfffhhh, yeah that's stupid, why would you want that?" then that's BAD business. I don't care what the reasoning is behind it.

They may have looked into it and the only wifi available to them is prohibitively expensive, so it isn't good business sense to put it in, but you just don't treat the customer like that. You say "That may be a good idea and we will look into that for the future".

You piss off one person, and you lose 10 potential customers. You placate that same person and make them feel like they matter and you may gain 5 or 10...

Jaden
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Apparently you do need me. It may be obvious to you that he is in it for the bottom line. What apparently is not obvious to you, but should be, is that he should ONLY be in it for the bottom line.

And he does care about what other's opinions are. For many years now the public has expressed their opinion about their willingness to pay for long race PPV. Their resounding opinion is that they are not willing to pay for it. You are just mad that he isn't listening to your opinion and preference, even though it is not at all a popular one as evidenced by the dismal sales, instead of trying to do something that more people will want besides just you and a couple of others. What is so hard to understand about that?

so instead of saying this ¥¥¥
The match is set and we will do whats best for pool. Thanks for talking!

He should say we will do what's best for us ,,, which is what he really means
I have no problem with the truth be a man and state it
He has exactly how much expertise in PPV pool ,,, was not Shane and the Magician one of the biggest in terms of viewers

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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Perhaps a poll would give Ozzy an idea what the masses think. That is if AZB is their target audience and there are no time constraint issues. Only my second post in about ten years of lurking so I've obviously never started a poll, but my vote would be for a longer race. Good luck.

I've seen in government what the majority vote does, just because many people want something does not mean it's the right thing, or the right thing at the time. A poll won't really change things. I can see them going to 25, at the most 30, but not 50.

There are maybe 5%-10% of the population that I'd trust with decision making, the rest should not be allowed to vote without a full barrage of tests to prove they are not mindless cows just chewing the cud of life that the people to drive things feed to them.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
...it is foolish to NOT take into consideration what your customers want.

If you go into a store and you tell them as a customer that you would like them to change something about their store, like say adding a wifi to a coffee shop; if they responded with "pppfffhhh, yeah that's stupid, why would you want that?" then that's BAD business. I don't care what the reasoning is behind it.

Again, I get what you are saying and generally agree with you. But that isn't what happened here. He essentially said "we have already taken that into consideration, don't think it is best way to go overall, and as a result have ruled it out, and here is why". I don't have a problem with that. EVERY business in existence has said the exact same thing numerous time.

I think people are hearing it differently here because they didn't get their way or their preference or even a hint of compromise. But it happens all the time, they are just more emotional/passionate about this issue. Besides, we shouldn't have to baby people so much and sugar coat everything and play the politician. He wasn't rude, he didn't fail to take everyone's opinion into consideration. He just didn't butter everybody up enough with his wording to overcome their disappointment at not getting their way.

Not to mention, with less than 200 paying customers who make them no money, the truth is they really don't matter (not that he treated them that way because he didn't). Hurts to hear but it's true. Plus most of those people are going to buy anyway regardless of format. What he has to do is find a way to appeal to other new people, and you don't do that by doing the same old thing.
 
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itsfroze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You keep mentioning this as a fact, is it ?

"Not to mention, with less than 200 paying customers"


Where did you get this figure from ?
 

leto1776

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JCIN said on this very board that he only needed1k buyers per each PPV to make TAR viable, and he only got half that number only a handful of times. Seems to me like the long races just aren't good for business.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
He essentially said "we have already taken that into consideration, don't think it is best way to go overall, and as a result have ruled it out, and here is why". I don't have a problem with that.
Problem is, that's not what he wrote. It might have been the intent, but that's not what was written.

He wasn't rude, .

I disagree. I can only go with what was written. I can try to imagine intonation, but I can't come up with a voice that changes the abrupt rudeness.

Freddie <~~~ doesn't think anyone needs to stand up for him either
 

itsfroze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You keep mentioning vvvv this vvvv as a fact, is it ?

"Not to mention, with less than 200 paying customers"


Where did you get this figure from ?
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
You keep mentioning vvvv this vvvv as a fact, is it ?

"Not to mention, with less than 200 paying customers"


Where did you get this figure from ?

From my own eyeballs, and from others, and from Justin at TAR, and Bigtruck, etc. I see how many people are on the streams I've purchased. On streams I haven't purchased almost every time in the forums it will be mentioned how many viewers there were. And then the guys putting on the streams sometimes say how many people paid for the stream.

I'm estimating for all of time for all PPV events you have about 200 people on average that paid to watch. I never said this was exact, but it is relatively close. If somebody wants to dispute this I'm all ears. But even if the true number is double that amount it makes no difference to my point. Whatever the number is, it is extremely small, more or less inconsequential for most purposes, and certainly not enough to make anyone any real money.
 

Inaction

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I vote for Shane vs Ghost. Give the ghost a spot to make it more interesting and generate some rail action to increase the pot.

That way, I won't have to fast forward through the racking and when the opponent is shooting (on Archived videos).
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
What's your point? CSI's was not formed to sort out who is better than who in the gambling world. Their purpose is to make money.

They do not feel that super long races grow the fan base or make any money. History has proven beyond all doubt that they are right.

The problem is that many of you are thinking of this in terms of what will give a more definite winner (and even there you are all wrong as long match consisting of several shorter sets is more definitive, as is alternate breaks), or what your own personal viewing preferences are, instead of thinking of it like CSI has to think of it. And the ONLY way they can think about it is what is going to attract the most fans/make the most money? Everything else is absolutely immaterial. They aren't a charity.

And you can argue that you think the long race format will attract the most fans and make the most money but it would be a really dumb argument when for years it hasn't made any money and hasn't attracted more than 200 fans. Do you realize how ridiculous 200 sales is? Unless you are selling skyscrapers 200 sales is as miserable a failure as is possible. It is time to try something new, and there is a chance it could do much better, and almost no chance it could do any worse from a business perspective, which is the only way that CSI can look at it.

Fine. CSI knows best. Carry on......W/O me. JT
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
What some of you are forgetting as well is that this challenge match will probably have the biggest LIVE audience of any to date. People are not going to sit there in bleachers for a race to 50 as well. A race to 21, people will come out in droves - watch - and then get on with their business of playing in the BCAPL tournament or losing their money in Vega$.

I hope CSI has a better seating arrangement then they had last year for the spectators. I also hope they use the 45 second shot clock.

This will also not be the only challenge match during the BCAPL events. Again, don't expect the public to sit thru 2-3 races to 50 as well.

Watchez is the teacher
 

itsfroze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
People don't even come out in droves for short tournament races, with free admission.

I hope everyone enjoys the match, but I'll wait for the real match !

As short race, PPV, exhibitions just aren't my thing, personally. :thumbup:
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:eek:
People don't even come out in droves for short tournament races, with free admission.

I hope everyone enjoys the match, but I'll wait for the real match !

As short race, PPV, exhibitions just aren't my thing, personally. :thumbup:

The vast majority won't even know there is a match and even fewer would even know who KO is



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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here is the final racks of the 2008 Brunswick open where Orcullo had Ko Pin Yi 14:4 going to 15 and Ko runs 11 racks to win 15:4.

http://youtu.be/D4plPXkhqtU

Regardless of the race length this should be a tough fight.
 
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