A video on pivoting systems

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't think it's a secret actually

I'm pretty sure "mirror" or "spot on the wall" banking/kicking is as old as pool. It also works, at least in principle, for multi-rail shots.

pj
chgo

 

[Renegade_56]

Am I imagining it or isn't there a big table matrix diagram like this in Center Pocket Music? I thought I saw one there. Don't let the secret out but when I aim banks at the side pocket, I shoot them straight into an imaginary pocket out in space where it would be with two table surfaces butted up together.

I don't think it's a secret actually, but not many people think about that. The diagram you posted is basically how I aim banks. I do kicks different because you're aiming for a point on a ball rather than a pocket, but if you have a great imagination that would work for kicks too.

Well apparently we can't do that anymore,,,,,,,,,, but I'm with you

 

[BC21]

Am I imagining it or isn't there a big table matrix diagram like this in Center Pocket Music? I thought I saw one there. Don't let the secret out but when I aim banks at the side pocket, I shoot them straight into an imaginary pocket out in space where it would be with two table surfaces butted up together.

I don't think it's a secret actually, but not many people think about that. The diagram you posted is basically how I aim banks. I do kicks different because you're aiming for a point on a ball rather than a pocket, but if you have a great imagination that would work for kicks too.

A good practice tool for banks is a tall camera stand. Place it out from the table where the mirror image of the targeted pocket is. Then just aim the ob to the camera stand/pole.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

A good practice tool for banks is a tall camera stand. Place it out from the table where the mirror image of the targeted pocket is. Then just aim the ob to the camera stand/pole.

Another way is to stand where the mirror image would be, look back at the OB (or CB if you're kicking), and notice where it will hit the rail. Then aim at that spot on the rail.

pj
chgo

 

[Dan White]

Another way is to stand where the mirror image would be, look back at the CB, and notice where it will hit the rail. Then aim at that spot on the rail.

pj
chgo

Do you mean look back at the OB and see where it needs to hit the rail?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Do you mean look back at the OB and see where it needs to hit the rail?

Yes - either, depending on whether you're shooting a bank or a kick (I clarified my post above).

pj
chgo

 

[Dan White]

Yes - either, depending on whether you're shooting a bank or a kick (I clarified my post above).

pj
chgo

I just kind of bank by feel. I'm not a great banker but not horrible, either. I've never really used this system but I wonder if it is accurate enough to get you closer than just feel. Your suggestion of finding the spot on the rail is interesting. I'll have to try it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I've never really used this system but I wonder if it is accurate enough to get you closer than just feel.

It shows you the “equal angle” rail point, so it must usually be adjusted to reality by feel. Like other aiming systems, it just gives you “references” as starting points.

pj
chgo

 

[BC21]

Another way is to stand where the mirror image would be, look back at the OB (or CB if you're kicking), and notice where it will hit the rail. Then aim at that spot on the rail.

pj
chgo

During game situations, that's an excellent method to use.

For convenience and simplicity during practice, I always liked placing the camera stand at the mirrored pocket at the other side of the table for an anchored reference. After enough times of referencing the camera stand's shaft, and also paying attention to the bank angle and the targeted spot on the rail, you eventually develop a great eye for just knowing the banks when you see them.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Your suggestion of finding the spot on the rail is interesting. I'll have to try it.

For banks to a pocket you can "triangulate" the place to stand (mirrored pocket position) by sighting through the side pocket or the middle of a side rail to the target pocket - if you stand where the two "triangulating" lines cross (the position of the mirrored pocket), you're in the correct position to sight the target spot on the bank/kick rail.

pj
chgo

 

[Dan White]

For banks to a pocket you can "triangulate" the place to stand (mirrored pocket position) by sighting through the side pocket or the middle of a side rail to the target pocket - if you stand where the two "triangulating" lines cross (the position of the mirrored pocket), you're in the correct position to sight the target spot on the bank/kick rail.

pj
chgo

View attachment 780019

I'm not following your diagram.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm not following your diagram.

It shows a quick way to find the place to stand to sight the rail contact points for banks to side or corner pockets - stand where you can see the target pocket aligned with the two “triangulation” points on the bank rail (center pocket and 2nd diamond).

pj
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[bbb]

why not just look at 2:1 and adjust based on how the table plays?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

why not just look at 2:1 and adjust based on how the table plays?

That's how I do it. This is info about the mirror/spot on the wall method.

pj
chgo

 

[jasonlaus]

I don't recall that Stan has such plans. He is however quite busy teaching cte and selling books.

I doubt that he will ever be considered for the hall of fame but he ought to be alongside Hal Houle imo because of their dedication to helping players learn to aim objectively. Both of them have helped thousands of people enjoy pool to a deeper level.

What they put out is constructive and instructive. What folks like you put out is destructive.

Stan has been instrumental in the topic of aiming being discussed in a deeper way than it was before he dedicated so much effort towards cte aiming.

Almost everyone who participates in the forum is here because of Hal and Stan's work.

I am pretty sure that those who have developed other aiming systems post Hal/Stan would likely not have gone down that road without their efforts to promote the concept of objective aiming in pool.

In my pool room I see people constantly who are using cte and other systems that didn't learn them from me. They picked them up on you tube from Stan's free videos and other's free videos. The amount of free instruction on aiming systems on YouTube and on websites is amazing and all due to Hal and Stan inspiring so many of us to learn and promote the idea of objective aiming.

There have been others before Hal and Stan that have promoted objective aiming systems. The Mullen Method and 90/90 for example. And Mike Eufemia, who reportedly ran 625 balls, had a method called the swivel. He put it down in a paper that my friend has.

As well there are others who have developed objective aiming methods based on Hal's work who are actively teaching them to students.

But none of these guys were/are as prolific as Hal and Stan.

So yeah, the "plan" is proceeding quite well. Lots of teachers, lots of students, small group of dedicated haters to keep the conversation going. Glad to see that I can leave for months and years and come back to find the same small group of haters actively keeping the conversation going. Give yourself a pat on the back for being a consistent part of getting people interested in objective aiming systems.

Thank you. Without the haters this topic would have never had as much traction as it has achieved. And it's ok that you challenge the claims. You never had to be nasty but that's just the nature of the Internet that allows some people to safely say things that would get them popped in the mouth in person. All of your rebuttals and your fake videos have been adequately addressed so at this point the only useful function you provide is to keep the conversation going. Other than the nasty comments you and others have engaged in all these years I am thankful for the questions that have forced me to think deeper about how and why these systems work.

I'm aware of pivot aiming due to Chip Klein and he didn't learn it from either of those guys

 

[jasonlaus]

Pivoting ( unless it's BHE )is a gimmick

So, front hand is a gimmick?

 

[JoeyInCali]

So, front hand is a gimmick?

Is FHE a pivot system ?

 

[Brookeland Bill]

You watched that whole thing?

pj <- could barely stand 4 minutes
chgo

I enjoyed watching the cats