All new American Pro Tour! NBL - National Billiards League

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nobody is assuming players will play to support the tour. The ONLY assumption being made is that amateurs can't win. That is COMPLETELY UNTRUE. That's already been proven false various times at the 100's of events I've hosted, devised and have been a part of over the last 10 years. Out of 32amateurs at the Stage 1 events, 8 will win cash (ALREADY BEING GENERATED) and then get a FREE shot at a $200,000 prize purse AND play another amateur in the 1st round guaranteed. At the main event, 32 amateurs advance to the winners side. Never before has that been done!
PS, If you tell yourself you cant win, YOU'RE RIGHT! That's a very poor mindset. I've actually coached players and got them to play a ball better after 1 simple 2-hour lesson. As a matter of fact, my weekly 9-ball tournament paid out the top 6 of 24 players and 4 out of 6 were bottom level players! 1st place winner, 4th, 5th & 6th. The 2nd place and 3rd place finishers were mid level players. The 3 top ranked players DID NOT WIN. My point is, the proper format allows the lesser player opportunities to win. They only have to have the proper mindset. It's been PROVEN time and time again.
I completely understand the top 8 will "win cash". But again, the main question is how much cash? Nothing in your business model guarantees the prize money amount for the top 8, or where exactly the prize money will be coming from. If it comes from local satellites and calcuttas as you say, then that prize money would be highly variable from qualifier to qualifier, location to location, even with a full 32-person qualifier field. For some qualifiers 2nd place might win you your $150 entry fee back. In other qualifiers 2nd place might win you $20. It all depends on how much money is generated prior to the qualifier.

Your tour hinges on full participation of these Stage 1 qualifiers by amateur players. I'm an amateur player. I would gladly participate in a qualifier if I knew ahead of time that the top 8 spots paid enough prize money that would make my $150 entry fee a decent enough gamble. If it's not a decent gamble (for example 2nd place only winning $20), then I won't participate (because I don't do lotteries). It's as simple as that.

Maybe it would help if you gave more specific and detailed examples of how you envision this prize money is generated. Maybe a satellite consisting of 24 players with a $20 entry fee. That comes to $480 total. Winner wins the $150 entry fee into the Stage 1 qualifier, pool hall gets $30 (too cheap, but neglect that for now), and the remaining $300 goes to the prize money for the qualifier. If you hold 4 of these satellites, then that comes to $1200. Assuming the qualifier divides the prize money evenly between the top 8, that comes to an average prize of $150.

If the above situation is something that you envision, then I would be willing to participate in a qualifier that pays out $1200 to the top 8. But I have a hard time believing players would choose to participate in such satellites (that pays out only the $150 fee of the winner and nothing else) over their regular weekly $20 9-ball tournaments in which they can win cash immediately for the top 4 or 6 spots.

I'm just giving you my honest feedback. I hope I'm wrong with my worries and I sincerely wish your tour is a success.
 
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jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why did you go with 8 ball for half the events? No serious player I know touches that game. If you are looking for $100 qualifier entry fees as opposed to $5 entry fees, you are clearly targeting serious players, not bar bangers. I know one guy from my home room in Philly, an open player, cashed in 2 of Barry's US Open's.... He would play about every year in the Hopkins pro event. One year Hopkins made it 8 ball, and this player was pissed and did not enter. He was like "who the f plays 8 ball!"
I see no issue with 8 ball. It's a beautiful game (and a much better spectators' game than 9 ball). The only player who is pissed at playing 8 ball is someone who knows he can't play 8 ball well.
 

briankenobi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I see no issue with 8 ball. It's a beautiful game (and a much better spectators' game than 9 ball). The only player who is pissed at playing 8 ball is someone who knows he can't play 8 ball well.

Well said.
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Gold Member
Silver Member
If their(amateur) tour card qualifies them for the year then they can buy directly into the next event, is this correct? Seems that would "cheapen" the tour because you'd end up with more amateur players than pros.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but if the idea is to end up with televised pro tour....

Hope you make it happen👍
 

Sandman

Sandcastle Room Owner
Silver Member
If their(amateur) tour card qualifies them for the year then they can buy directly into the next event, is this correct? Seems that would "cheapen" the tour because you'd end up with more amateur players than pros.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but if the idea is to end up with televised pro tour....

Hope you make it happen👍
Pro players will then need to be responsible professional adults and claim their spot in a timely manner rather than wait till the last minute like too many of them do now. This is the real world. You want it? Go get it. ;)
 

Sandman

Sandcastle Room Owner
Silver Member
I completely understand the top 8 will "win cash". But again, the main question is how much cash? Nothing in your business model guarantees the prize money amount for the top 8, or where exactly the prize money will be coming from. If it comes from local satellites and calcuttas as you say, then that prize money would be highly variable from qualifier to qualifier, location to location, even with a full 32-person qualifier field. For some qualifiers 2nd place might win you your $150 entry fee back. In other qualifiers 2nd place might win you $20. It all depends on how much money is generated prior to the qualifier.

Your tour hinges on full participation of these Stage 1 qualifiers by amateur players. I'm an amateur player. I would gladly participate in a qualifier if I knew ahead of time that the top 8 spots paid enough prize money that would make my $150 entry fee a decent enough gamble. If it's not a decent gamble (for example 2nd place only winning $20), then I won't participate (because I don't do lotteries). It's as simple as that.

Maybe it would help if you gave more specific and detailed examples of how you envision this prize money is generated. Maybe a satellite consisting of 24 players with a $20 entry fee. That comes to $480 total. Winner wins the $150 entry fee into the Stage 1 qualifier, pool hall gets $30 (too cheap, but neglect that for now), and the remaining $300 goes to the prize money for the qualifier. If you hold 4 of these satellites, then that comes to $1200. Assuming the qualifier divides the prize money evenly between the top 8, that comes to an average prize of $150.

If the above situation is something that you envision, then I would be willing to participate in a qualifier that pays out $1200 to the top 8. But I have a hard time believing players would choose to participate in such satellites (that pays out only the $150 fee of the winner and nothing else) over their regular weekly $20 9-ball tournaments in which they can win cash immediately for the top 4 or 6 spots.

I'm just giving you my honest feedback. I hope I'm wrong with my worries and I sincerely wish your tour is a success.
I wish I could predict exactly how much each TD will be able to raise and how many satellite events will be held especially with COVID shutdowns and a huge hurdle of skeptical players that can bet $500 a set in a guaranteed lock set but are afraid to enter a tournament of 31 other peers at a measly $150 (The average bar tab or nice dinner date for two) to break even or win a full sponsored shot at a projected $200K purse paying out the top 48 spots. You know the challenges out there. The bottom line is: EVERYONE must do their part and participate in the attempt to get a professional, organized and structured tour off the ground. PLAYERS INCLUDED. SPECTATORS INCLUDED. Will YOU do YOUR part? ;)

Perhaps MY ignorance is in that I expect people to know that it is a GIVEN that we are aiming to raise enough at each location to reward all top 8 finishers at all 32 locations their $150 entry and more. Can it be accomplished? Yes! Only with some hard work collectively as a united entity at all levels- amateur players, pro players, promoters, venue owners, spectators, industry leaders and so forth. I ALREADY have the support and cooperation of all of those. I'm now asking all of you out there to step up and do your part as well and help in any way you can. Play, promote, spread the word, support the venues that are hosting and giving up their facilities and equipment for you, help the TDs that are putting in their time for you and most of all GIVE BACK TO THE GAME WE ALL LOVE!
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Eddie...Just the fact that you're able to do anything to move this forward during these crazy times is a testament to your dedication to make this happen. I fully support everything you do, and I plan to play in the FL qualifier next month!

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
 

mark187

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good luck, although I suspect lots of players my standard won't be paying regular $150 entry fees. I can enter 10 tournaments locally for the same combined, and will be confident that there will be a lot of low skill players for me to beat, and a realistic chance of making my money back or at least covering my costs. I hope you find enough players to cover what seems like a decent prize pot, and I'd happily pay a small amount to watch a stream of the finals.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some questions. Where and when will the 1st main event be held? I'd want to know that before entering a qualifier.
If someone qualifies and for whatever reason is unable to attend main event is their spot transferable?
Once someone qualifies they can put up 1K to enter another main event. If they did I'm assuming they're now on the pro side for the 1st round?
If you go by Fargo, right now there are 89 players 719 or above. Actually a few more because of foreign players residing in the US who you've deemed eligible. That means there are players in the Top US 100 who aren't considered Pros and can play in the amateur qualifiers. Is that correct?
 

kaznj

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I don't understand why some people spend so much time and energy telling everyone why they will not play. Don't play. Who cares. Leave the discussions to people who have legitimate questions.
 

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
I don't understand why some people spend so much time and energy telling everyone why they will not play. Don't play. Who cares. Leave the discussions to people who have legitimate questions.
I posted a thread about staking a player and it's crickets. All these stakehorses on here and no one is stepping up.
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't understand why some people spend so much time and energy telling everyone why they will not play. Don't play. Who cares. Leave the discussions to people who have legitimate questions.
Wanting to know where and when the event will be held is not a legitimate question? Some of us have a life outside pool and can't just up and go without planning ahead.
With the exception of this year (due to cancellation) I've spent the time and money to attend and play in large professional events for many years now. I'm perfectly happy to do this.
However, there's not one time I could have done that without knowing well in advance where and when I had to show up.
It sucks. I wish I could just up and go anywhere I felt like at any time but I can't and the majority of people reading this can't either.
The dates and venue for every major pool tournament are always known way in advance. Why should this one be any different?
 

Sandman

Sandcastle Room Owner
Silver Member
Good luck, although I suspect lots of players my standard won't be paying regular $150 entry fees. I can enter 10 tournaments locally for the same combined, and will be confident that there will be a lot of low skill players for me to beat, and a realistic chance of making my money back or at least covering my costs. I hope you find enough players to cover what seems like a decent prize pot, and I'd happily pay a small amount to watch a stream of the finals.
Thank you for your good wishes Mark. I'm sad to hear you feel as if you can't at least break even locally. You are aware that is is a short race to 5 with alternate break format for the most part at stage 1 correct? All you have to do is make the top 25% to break even or least make some back at worst. Stop thinking you can't succeed. Once you say, "I can't" you're RIGHT!
 

Sandman

Sandcastle Room Owner
Silver Member
I don't understand why some people spend so much time and energy telling everyone why they will not play. Don't play. Who cares. Leave the discussions to people who have legitimate questions.
Thank you for feeling my pain Kaz. Haha However I think the wrong people took your comment wrongfully to heart. I know it was just a generalization.
 

Sandman

Sandcastle Room Owner
Silver Member
Some questions. Where and when will the 1st main event be held? I'd want to know that before entering a qualifier.
If someone qualifies and for whatever reason is unable to attend main event is their spot transferable?
Once someone qualifies they can put up 1K to enter another main event. If they did I'm assuming they're now on the pro side for the 1st round?
If you go by Fargo, right now there are 89 players 719 or above. Actually a few more because of foreign players residing in the US who you've deemed eligible. That means there are players in the Top US 100 who aren't considered Pros and can play in the amateur qualifiers. Is that correct?
Thanks for your interest and inquiries Sparkle.

ORIGINALLY, the main event was slated to be held in March at either Griff's in Las Vegas, NV or Freezer's in Tempe, Arizona to save on travel expenses for players that will be at the BCA Expo & CSI events at that time. COVID ruined all that. We're still looking at Freezer's to host at a later date depending on when we can hold our qualifiers nationwide with shut downs in this 2nd wave and ultimately crown our 64 amateur champions to send to the national event.

Once you qualify in one of the two qualifiers for that quarter, it may only be applied to that quarterly main event. Otherwise the spot will be awarded to the runner-up. Ie; Jan qualifier winner and Feb qualifier winner get into the March national event. April & May qualifier winners get into June national event. etc...

Incorrect. Fargo is not the only factor. It is only 1 of 4 things considered. The other 3 are BCA top 200 ranked US players, Retired or non-touring pros, and finally common sense and better judgement of the local tour director who is familiar with everyone's current skillsets.
 

Sandman

Sandcastle Room Owner
Silver Member
Eddie...Just the fact that you're able to do anything to move this forward during these crazy times is a testament to your dedication to make this happen. I fully support everything you do, and I plan to play in the FL qualifier next month!

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Thank you Scott! Despite hard and uncertain times we MUST push forward and get OUR game headed in the right direction ourselves. The government won't help us, millionaires won't invest without a viable product with a return, the Olympic committee won't consider us UNTIL WE GET ORGANIZED. Nobody else is doing it. Thank you for your support!
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for your interest and inquiries Sparkle.

ORIGINALLY, the main event was slated to be held in March at either Griff's in Las Vegas, NV or Freezer's in Tempe, Arizona to save on travel expenses for players that will be at the BCA Expo & CSI events at that time. COVID ruined all that. We're still looking at Freezer's to host at a later date depending on when we can hold our qualifiers nationwide with shut downs in this 2nd wave and ultimately crown our 64 amateur champions to send to the national event.

Once you qualify in one of the two qualifiers for that quarter, it may only be applied to that quarterly main event. Otherwise the spot will be awarded to the runner-up. Ie; Jan qualifier winner and Feb qualifier winner get into the March national event. April & May qualifier winners get into June national event. etc...

Incorrect. Fargo is not the only factor. It is only 1 of 4 things considered. The other 3 are BCA top 200 ranked US players, Retired or non-touring pros, and finally common sense and better judgement of the local tour director who is familiar with everyone's current skillsets.
Ok, Thanks, now we have a little more information.
Going by the highlighted paragraph above you seem to be saying the dates and venue are not determined yet. That you're not sure when or if all these qualifiers will actually take place. Given the circumstances I understand that's a possibility and that it's not your fault.
However, it would be nice if you'd clarify that and share any contingency plans you may be considering. Is everything going to be pushed ahead or go forward with a smaller event?
 

Sandman

Sandcastle Room Owner
Silver Member
PRESS RELEASE...
 

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KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I haven’t heard a word about the January event in Rhode Island. What will the payouts be? Is the event going forward as planned? Any update on equipment in the room? Is there a player list anywhere? Any and all info would be appreciated, but especially answers to these questions.

Thanks!


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