APA CHEATING ON THE SCORE SHEET- what to do?

[Snapshot9]

Kind of OT I guess, but what does a 90% vs. 100% handicap league mean?

Cats ... It means the better player spots the lessor player 90% of the difference between their ratings in lieu of a 100%. I think you will agree that beginning players tend to get better faster than better players improving their ratings. 90% handicap says that the lessor player has to play 10% or better than average to beat the better player.

This way, the better player is not being punished for being better, and the lessor player has to improve their game to win. It, basically, keeps everyone improving their game, and not just being the best for a particular handicap like a 100% handicap does.

 

[Andrew Manning]

If my APA division worked like this, I would choose not to play in the APA.

-Andrew

 

[Predator5K4]

There are a couple of people in our league that actually take a picture of the scoresheet after both captains have signed it. It's only going to work the first time that you do it against this team. They'll remember and just pad innings after that and hope that their safeties look close enough to misses.

 

[gregoryg]

APA honest?????

APA leagues can be fun, but it's way too easy to fudge the scoresheets. Too many people who are new to league play have no idea what they are watching, IF they are watching.

When I played in the first APA in Northern New Jersey, over ten years ago, most of the teams had no idea what they were supposed to be watching and what the players were doing when they took a shot. Even the league operator at that time called me after one of our matches to ask if I made a mistake in scoring, when he saw 23 defensive shots listed for ONE game.

When our team played, we knew what a defensive shot was and when a shot was just a missed shot. We were a team that had played in another league for quite a few years at that time and were able to see when someone would play a shot to "miss" on purpose.

It's really a shame that a lot of the people who play in the APA are usually trying to learn more about how to beat the handicapping system than how to play their best pool. Needless to say after the first year of playing in the APA league, I did not play a second year. Too many people who didn't know what they were looking at and how to keep track of the matches properly.

Definately would let the league people in St. Louis know what the people on that team were doing. Trying to manipulate the handicap system is really low when it comes to playing in a handicapped league.

If you can't play good enough to win without cheating, you don't bother playing at all.

 

[Big Perm]

These threads always bother me.......if I remember right, there are a number of APA LO's on this board......the type of activity and sandbagging should not be allowed, and I would think they would be the first ones on here to handle/respond to this type of blatant cheating....

APA, you have a good idea, but you continue to fawk it up....manage out the sandbagging and make it fun for people, their family, and friends to compete on a fair playing field.....make public examples of cheaters and weed them out.....and here is a good case to start with....

 

[XxMerlinxX]

Cheating is one of the reasons why I'm kind of put off by the local APA league. I was watching a match one night and this guy was dumping every shot, which I thought was pretty obvious, but nobody else seemed to notice. I asked one of the other guys on his team what he was doing and he said he was trying to get down to a 4.

 

[NewStroke]

Contact the league operator. This happens much more than you can imagine. Also, my previous has asked people to dump because they where on the "verge" of going up.

My motto: Play the best you can and achieve the level you are capable of achieving.

 

[NewStroke]

I forgot to mention, when I played, our league operator encouraged a 5 that qualified for nationals to play down to avoid going up before the tournament. So I guess they cheat all around.

 

[GMAC]

Never feel gulity for turning a cheater in, they deserve it.

 

[cbi1000]

Jerry, I am a firm believer that you must report the problems to your league operator. If as others have said she is involved this will expose her, and then you will have to take the next step and report the situation to the APA Headquarters.

Like it or not if you are presented with something like this you must take action. Because if you do nothing you are also guilty, by association and you are letting your people down which is inexcusable.

I agree, if you don't then you will be a port of the problem too. Cheaters like this not only make the game crap for you, but for everyone else they play.

cbi

 

[crawfish]

Just stab everybody involved.

 

[8&snap]

Do a write-up in the most popular local paper & ask the same question you have ask here & dont forget to quote the recording word for word & name of caller. Tell them your between a rock & a hard place & need the readers advice.

 

[whitewolf]

I have had other captains who cheat by marking too many safes, and I am talking 10 times what should have been made. I complained and the APA had a representative watch his score keeping. Sure enough he blatantly cheated and the APA warned him with a threat to boot him out.

Trust me on this - if you don't want to bother with complaining, then make your score sheet extremely NEAT. At the APA office, I have heard, the people inputting the score sheets into the computer usually pick the neat sheet and don't even bother comparing it to the other sheet.

On this forum we had someone who filmed every shot, sometimes without a team being aware that they were being filmed. He then presented the tape to the APA and they had no choice but to admonish the faulty team. With today's cameras that would be very possible to record one match anyway.

Sorry I got off topic a little. WW

 

[UWPoolGod1]

Just stab everybody involved.

Speaking of ridiculous posts... j/k.

I'm not sure how your area does it but here in Bakersfield the score sheet packages are at the bar before the match begins and stay at the bar when the match is over and picked up by the League Operator the next day. I can see where a system like this could lead to the home bars captains adding innings after the match was over without the other teams captains knowing about it.

In my old league in Washington we had to mail in our teams score sheet the next day to the local office so there was no chance of tampering once the match sheets were compared and signed by each captain. Seems like a better way to do it.

Either way the captain that did that is shady and should be punished. Unless you are worried about your future relationship with the individual I would call the National office on him/her.

 

[OTB]

how about a team going 3 rounds in a vegas qaulifier winners bracket then being told because of time avalible there is no loser bracket if you lose. your out....................

 

[highrun55]

Hear it a lot

Contact the league operator. This happens much more than you can imagine. Also, my previous has asked people to dump because they where on the "verge" of going up.

My motto: Play the best you can and achieve the level you are capable of achieving.

I dont have any APA or other leages in my room but some of my customers play in it in the bars, I hear them talk about laying down, sandbagging all the time and some are proud of it.

I do have the 14and1.com leagues

highrun55

 

[crawfish]

Still vote for the stabbing.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

how about a team going 3 rounds in a vegas qaulifier winners bracket then being told because of time avalible there is no loser bracket if you lose. your out....................

Sounds like a modified single elimination bracket. This is common in APA. We had the same thing here. You are guaranteed two matches (even if you lose your first) but after your second match you can't lose.

 

[streak]

APA format

I play in the APA, but have also played in BCA and VNEA. In the other two leagues, this kind of complaining seldom, if ever comes up. The reason is simple. The APA format practically begs to be abused. In APA if you put together a team ( maybe of 5 or 6 friends) then noone can improve because you will be forced to break the team up if skill levels are raised. That is just silly. I know several people who have just stopped playing APA for that very reason. In BCA and VNEA your team ( if comprised of better players ) would have to handicap the other team based on the comparative averages of the two teams. I remember many nights when it came down to one game to determine the winner...often you may have to hold your opponent to a certain number of balls in order to win.
It also seems that in APA there are more people who want to win by catching you violating some obscure rule, rather than beating you on the pool table. An Example: A team in our league bought a new Valley cue ball to practice with because they are going to the Nationals. They took it to the bar they were playing and used it to knock balls around before league started. They left it on the table ( without thinking anything of it ) when league started. This particular bar happened to have the EXACT SAME, IDENTICAL Valley cue ball. But the other team called the league operator and complained. The result? Team A had to forfeit the night. I understand that the league operator showed absolutely no leadership, but why would anyone want to win in that way. It kinda takes the fun out of competing.
Anyway...my two cents worth...

 

[IbeAnEngineer]

If I were you I would go out to the APA National website and turn in a complaint.

Here is the link: https://www.poolplayers.com/form_handicap_complaints.html
Be sure and let them know that you have a phone message in regards to the violation.

It may not get you anywhere but it will put the parties involved out on the radar screen with nationals.

By the way, is the team you played going to Vegas for Nationals in August by any chance?

Good luck