Are professionals supposed to call fouls on themselves?

Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
This is the dumbest topic!

I only play people I trust!

Second, most situations are too fast to be seen with the naked eye and often require high speed cameras!

Because of that, derby city classic use the 45 degree rule! Basically, it's a good hit if you shoot down on the shoot and not through the balls.

99% of the calls are regarding push shots. Some people expect double hit calls made that can't be seen with out the aid of cameras.

Either play derby rules or work out the rules ahead of time! But, considering people unprofessional for a close push shot just means that you shouldn't be playing if you truly believe it's a move....

Kd

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Last edited:

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
This is the dumbest topic!
...and your reply is easily the dumbest in the thread.

This isn't about "what would the derby would do", or you and your buddies. It's about what professionals should do when they know they have fouled. Obviously you can't expect someone to call a foul on themselves if they're unaware they commited one.
 

Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
... Obviously you can't expect someone to call a foul on themselves if they're unaware they commited one.

Wow

You got the point I was trying to make...

And if they are unaware they obviously can't be unprofessional by not making a call.

Kd
Kd

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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is the dumbest topic!

I only play people I trust!

Second, most situations are too fast to be seen with the naked eye and often require high speed cameras!

Because of that, derby city classic use the 45 degree rule! Basically, it's a good hit if you shoot down on the shoot and not through the balls.

99% of the calls are regarding push shots. Some people expect double hit calls made that can't be seen with out the aid of cameras.

Either play derby rules or work out the rules ahead of time! But, considering people unprofessional for a close push shot just means that you shouldn't be playing if you truly believe it's a move....

Kd

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk



True enough you often can't see the double hit. However, you can often hear it and the direction of the cue ball gives away the double hit too.
 

maldito

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How about this one ....... was watching a 3-c match Danny Sanchez/Miguel Torres and shooters' ball just like grazed ball for the point and ref said it was no good and shooter said it was good and seated opponent agreed it was good but ref ruling held up .... no point.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wow

You got the point I was trying to make...

And if they are unaware they obviously can't be unprofessional by not making a call.

Kd
Kd

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
There's a flip side of the coin to that. If they're unaware of a foul situation, then they're not professionals to begin with.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
Theoretically, the answer is no. A pro need not call fouls on him/herself.

In an unrefereed match, in which players must be their own referees, it is a matter of both integrity and sportsmanship. Those who say "if you snooze, you lose" drag down the game's image and reinforce the negative stereotypes that pro pool players have had to endure for decades.

In a refereed match, it's a bit more complicated, and very few calls will be missed. A player committing an uncalled foul in which he/she is certain that a foul was committed (judgment calls must be left to the referee) has an opportunity to raise the profile of his sport by pointing the foul out, and the most visible matches are usually refereed.

Neither integrity nor superior sportsmanship are mandated by the rules of pool, but in a sport that has consistently failed to project the kind of image that will land it "out of industry" sponsorship, players ought to be wise enough to take the high road.
 
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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Wasn’t Roberto Gomez a victim of a TERRIBLE call by a ref earlier this year? It was on a kick?

Can’t remember where but I saw the video and that ref was staring right at it, it wasn’t a hard call….brutal


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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
How about this one ....... was watching a 3-c match Danny Sanchez/Miguel Torres and shooters' ball just like grazed ball for the point and ref said it was no good and shooter said it was good and seated opponent agreed it was good but ref ruling held up .... no point.
Some refs will change their call in that situation. Often two champions have a more accurate opinion than even a trained referee.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Edit: even if I lied to get into a soft game, I can’t lie about a foul. Funny how that works……
That is funny how it works....I will misrepresent greatly making a game. I look at it like poker...I’ll try to make a royal flush look like a busted flush....but I won’t cheat.
...things can get blurry...we have to satisfy ourselves.
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That is funny how it works....I will misrepresent greatly making a game. I look at it like poker...I’ll try to make a royal flush look like a busted flush....but I won’t cheat.
...things can get blurry...we have to satisfy ourselves.

Deception in poker is part of the fundamental fabric of the game. Deception by wannabe hustlers in pool is why pool has such a scummy reputation among the public at large. Actual honesty doesn't get blurry. Rationalizing dishonesty is what gets blurty.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Deception in poker is part of the fundamental fabric of the game. Deception by wannabe hustlers in pool is why pool has such a scummy reputation among the public at large. Actual honesty doesn't get blurry. Rationalizing dishonesty is what gets blurty.
I gamble at pool by the rules of poker. I won’t gamble with defenceless people, I gamble with gamblers. If you want me to help you make a fair game..don’t mess with me.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Theoretically, the answer is no. A pro need not call fouls on him/herself.

In an unrefereed match, in which players must be their own referees, it is a matter of both integrity and sportsmanship. Those who say "if you snooze, you lose" drag down the game's image and reinforce the negative stereotypes that pro pool players have had to endure for decades.

In a refereed match, it's a bit more complicated, and very few calls will be missed. A player committing an uncalled foul in which he/she is certain that a foul was committed (judgment calls must be left to the referee) has an opportunity to raise the profile of his sport by pointing the foul out, and the most visible matches are usually refereed.

Neither integrity nor superior sportsmanship are mandated by the rules of pool, but in a sport that has consistently failed to project the kind of image that will land it "out of industry" sponsorship, players ought to be wise enough to take the high road.
Imagine a world wherein video replay could catch a player in a knowingly 'non-self called' foul, and they get assessed an unsportsmanlike penalty...?...lol

I know that could never happen but it would comically karmic.
 
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Reactions: sjm

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I gamble at pool by the rules of poker. I won’t gamble with defenceless people, I gamble with gamblers. If you want me to help you make a fair game..don’t mess with me.

And the fact that this attitude is so widespread is why pool sucks. Because it is ostensibly a game but for too much of its history and too many of its players it is just a venue for gambling, much of it dishonest. And when it is a handicap situation, misrepresenting yourself is dishonest. And the fact you you don't recognize it as dishonest or rationalize the dishonesty away simple shows the extent to which you've absorbed the very characteristics of the pool culture that ensure that it will continue to have a poor reputation.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
And the fact that this attitude is so widespread is why pool sucks. Because it is ostensibly a game but for too much of its history and too many of its players it is just a venue for gambling, much of it dishonest. And when it is a handicap situation, misrepresenting yourself is dishonest. And the fact you you don't recognize it as dishonest or rationalize the dishonesty away simple shows the extent to which you've absorbed the very characteristics of the pool culture that ensure that it will continue to have a poor reputation.
We’re living in two different worlds...to me, I play a war game, like chess or boxing...and I do it full tilt.
...and I think my world is more honest than yours.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
We’re living in two different worlds...to me, I play a war game, like chess or boxing...and I do it full tilt.
...and I think my world is more honest than yours.


I agree completely! Pool and the similar games started out as war games. Seems most games did. They were to teach strategy.

When two gamblers meet you don't take anything the other person says literally. It's just part of a dance. What you wait to see is what the other person does! Nice when the two players size each other up and get right down to business playing for real money but usually you go through the dance starting cheap and working your way up; This is the real story and where the other player's speed is rated. Doesn't matter if they are winning or losing, you are watching how they make and how they miss balls, how they move around the table, how they chalk, every bit of information you can extract!

A player claims to be greener than grass. They move awkwardly, they shoot awkwardly, putting on a great sell.. Then they have a shot that is difficult to reach. As they lay down on the edge of the table one leg comes up to lie up and down the rail in a natural and smooth move. Oh yeah, this is a pilgrim! When the negotiations begin again that one move tells you more than all of the talk, all of the misses which were often at the right time but not in the right manner.

Finally the gloves are off, the ritual is over, it is time for battle. Both players jump three or four balls when the money gets right and the chips are down. No more games, both players are in top gear now and it usually doesn't end until one player is busted, often including that final air barrel to end the session. An air barrel early is dangerous, after a long session it is almost expected! I still gave a walking stick most of the time. If somebody had been a real jerk, screw 'em, they were on their own!

Hu
 

KissedOut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We’re living in two different worlds...to me, I play a war game, like chess or boxing...and I do it full tilt.
...and I think my world is more honest than yours.

Well, yes. You are steeped in the mentality that makes pool suck and insures that it will never have much of a national profile.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
Some people you just wanna see play!
Conditions can change. I used to give a guy Tony 70 points at snooker for $10 a game....I always won.
We were very friendly and sometimes I’d give him pointers after.
I took a year off from the game....so the first guy I played was Tony...the price made it a good warm-up.
He robbed me for $70....I had no chance....he didn’t want to take the money....he said he had always considered it a pleasure to see me run hundreds...he actually had tears in his eyes. I told him he had to allow me to be a man and pay.
I never gambled with him again...but when I got back in stroke I would ask him to take 10% of my action...
....I’m pretty sure I won the money back that I had beaten him for.

This is the world that Kissed Out that doesn’t understand.
 
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