backers cut
- Thread starter D-Rock
- Start date
I'm pretty sure I saw a thread dealing with this exact issue in the Action forum just last week or the week before.
There's a formula, or something like it, for determining how it works, IIRC.
Edit: Found it: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=193948&highlight=stakehorse
It's a poll, but lots of conversation about it.
There's a formula, or something like it, for determining how it works, IIRC.
Edit: Found it: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=193948&highlight=stakehorse
It's a poll, but lots of conversation about it.
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Enough to make it worth your while. Not enough to make your horse think of dumping.
Just keep it mind that for the Player, it's a no-lose situation. He either wins some, or loses nothing.
That's why the 60/40 split is so common. You assume all the risk.
Being a stake horse is rough. Unless you're a genius at matching up and know all the players strengths and weaknesses, it's a coin flip at best.
Say the match is for a dime. You must consider that 1K as a risky investment; that money is gone and you will either lose it all or receive a 60% return ($1600 back).
Then you probably have to cover your horses food & drinks, table time and a lil' jelly to the loser.
And backers getting caught in a trap?? Well, that's a different Oprah show.
-von
That's why the 60/40 split is so common. You assume all the risk.
Being a stake horse is rough. Unless you're a genius at matching up and know all the players strengths and weaknesses, it's a coin flip at best.
Say the match is for a dime. You must consider that 1K as a risky investment; that money is gone and you will either lose it all or receive a 60% return ($1600 back).
Then you probably have to cover your horses food & drinks, table time and a lil' jelly to the loser.
And backers getting caught in a trap?? Well, that's a different Oprah show.
-von
There is rarely any way for backers to come out ahead in the long run. Are you ready to donate the money in return for the entertainment?
Let's suppose both players have backers and the deal is 50-50 in each camp. After the match, the players as a group are ahead by half the bet and the backers as a group are behind by half the bet.
If you're twice as smart as the next backer and never back your horse in a game worse than 7-3 in your favor, you can come out ahead.
50 50 is fair
whatcha think guys?
its funny this was brought up because it was only about a month ago, I was called to see if i wanted to travel out of the state to play some nice sized action.The solicitor (the guy wanted to back me against someone who had been beating him for the couple weeks prior) only offered me a 12% cut for me to win him all kinds of money.
Has anyone EVER heard of 88% to 12% to the player? Now, he did offer to fly me down there, pay for living expenses and I was to stay in his guest house while I was there for a week or so, i'd play the game, and win/lose he'd fly me back home.
The paying for expenses part was a nice offer, but to tell you the truth, I'd rather have it be 60-40 and pay to live in a motel for the week/pay for my own food. Idk, I didn't like the offer so I never went, but that seemed a bit nitty to me.
its funny this was brought up because it was only about a month ago, I was called to see if i wanted to travel out of the state to play some nice sized action.The solicitor (the guy wanted to back me against someone who had been beating him for the couple weeks prior) only offered me a 12% cut for me to win him all kinds of money.
Has anyone EVER heard of 88% to 12% to the player? Now, he did offer to fly me down there, pay for living expenses and I was to stay in his guest house while I was there for a week or so, i'd play the game, and win/lose he'd fly me back home.
The paying for expenses part was a nice offer, but to tell you the truth, I'd rather have it be 60-40 and pay to live in a motel for the week/pay for my own food. Idk, I didn't like the offer so I never went, but that seemed a bit nitty to me.
yes it was nitty.
he was going to help you a lot with exp.
but 12 % damn.
i hope you said el paso
Having spent a good many years as a backer, I can say IT DEPENDS! It depends on how high the bet is, how good of a game you think you have and how much you trust the
player you're backing. When Gary and I went on the road, we counted my bank roll when we left town and again when we returned. We then split whatever we were up 50/50
after taking the expenses off the top. BUT Gary was my best friend. He wouldn't make a game he wasn't pretty damn sure he could win at and he tried very hard for my
money. A lot of players will take any game they can get when they're being staked, because they have nothing to lose and a chance to win pretty good. Gary wouldn't do
that, in fact I begged him to play sometimes when he said it was just too tough of a game. He cared as much about MY money as his own! We didn't book too many losers
either! I also should add that I wasn't a rich backer and we seldom were in a situation where I could lose more than a couple of grand. If I were backing another player,
which I sometimes did ( David Howard, Chris MacDonald and a few others) and the bet was say over $5K, I would expect a little better, probably 60/40 or 70/30 depending
on how confident I was that we had the best of the game. I've never bet in the stratosphere like the Dippy Dave, $50K a set matches, but if I did I'd want even a better end
of it, more like 80/20 or 85/15 again depending on how much I liked my horses chances. That still gives the player a pretty good payday with no risk on his part. You can't
really set a firm percentage on something like this, there are just too many variables. Another thing to consider is that if you're betting real high, and win the first set or two
at say an 80/20 split, I'd make an adjustment on further sets giving the player a much better percentage because at that point we would be betting their money back at
them and I'd no longer be risking my own money. I'd probably go to 50/50 as long as we were ahead and I didn't have to worry about losing my bankroll. Hope this helps.
player you're backing. When Gary and I went on the road, we counted my bank roll when we left town and again when we returned. We then split whatever we were up 50/50
after taking the expenses off the top. BUT Gary was my best friend. He wouldn't make a game he wasn't pretty damn sure he could win at and he tried very hard for my
money. A lot of players will take any game they can get when they're being staked, because they have nothing to lose and a chance to win pretty good. Gary wouldn't do
that, in fact I begged him to play sometimes when he said it was just too tough of a game. He cared as much about MY money as his own! We didn't book too many losers
either! I also should add that I wasn't a rich backer and we seldom were in a situation where I could lose more than a couple of grand. If I were backing another player,
which I sometimes did ( David Howard, Chris MacDonald and a few others) and the bet was say over $5K, I would expect a little better, probably 60/40 or 70/30 depending
on how confident I was that we had the best of the game. I've never bet in the stratosphere like the Dippy Dave, $50K a set matches, but if I did I'd want even a better end
of it, more like 80/20 or 85/15 again depending on how much I liked my horses chances. That still gives the player a pretty good payday with no risk on his part. You can't
really set a firm percentage on something like this, there are just too many variables. Another thing to consider is that if you're betting real high, and win the first set or two
at say an 80/20 split, I'd make an adjustment on further sets giving the player a much better percentage because at that point we would be betting their money back at
them and I'd no longer be risking my own money. I'd probably go to 50/50 as long as we were ahead and I didn't have to worry about losing my bankroll. Hope this helps.
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i thought backers were the ones who got cut up in big money pool
lol, business.
lol, business.
mlalum
Banned
50-50 is not the least bit fair or does it make sense unless it's a mortal lock cinch. Money is and always will be king. 50-50 is pool player propaganda.
50 - 50
50 - 50 is only fair if you run a red number. Who's going to get action for anything over pennies where they're player is more than a 2 -1 favorite? And that isn't even factoring in "business", which seems to be standard practice among many players today.
50 - 50 is only fair if you run a red number. Who's going to get action for anything over pennies where they're player is more than a 2 -1 favorite? And that isn't even factoring in "business", which seems to be standard practice among many players today.
Man I am so sick of this undertone of players cutting up together. Most don't know each other well enough to do it. Some hate each other too much to talk about it. Most have some heart, and want to play hard. And most players in pool have some pride, at least for their game. There are some bad apples it happens in every sport. But I dont think it is as big of a risk as people make it out to be.
I have bested a lot of players in my life, I couldn't even count them all, and out of all the players I ever played, two asked me to dump on my stake. I told them both where to stick it and won the matches ,and split it with the guy I already had a deal with. That is what men do.
The only thing I have seen in the pool scene about gambling that I don't like is sometimes people don't pay other people. I know everyone is going to yell "post". lol
Here is the truth to posting. Posting just means you could get beat up or killed when when you grab the cash. If they are not going to pay you then you don't get paid.
I know this from learning about it the hard way. The only safe place to gamble in the USA is in a casino people do dumb things to pay their bills or fuel their habits.
But, as far as pool players all being untrustworthy it just isn't so. Most are good people. oh yeah 50/50 for friends so you can remain so, and 60/40 for strangers
.
I have bested a lot of players in my life, I couldn't even count them all, and out of all the players I ever played, two asked me to dump on my stake. I told them both where to stick it and won the matches ,and split it with the guy I already had a deal with. That is what men do.
The only thing I have seen in the pool scene about gambling that I don't like is sometimes people don't pay other people. I know everyone is going to yell "post". lol
Here is the truth to posting. Posting just means you could get beat up or killed when when you grab the cash. If they are not going to pay you then you don't get paid.
I know this from learning about it the hard way. The only safe place to gamble in the USA is in a casino people do dumb things to pay their bills or fuel their habits.
But, as far as pool players all being untrustworthy it just isn't so. Most are good people. oh yeah 50/50 for friends so you can remain so, and 60/40 for strangers
.
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Most people looking to be staked...
Most people looking to be staked don't have money. The only guaranteed way to make money in the match is to dump their stakehorse. Do the math. It goes on all the time, even more so the higher the bet.
Most people looking to be staked don't have money. The only guaranteed way to make money in the match is to dump their stakehorse. Do the math. It goes on all the time, even more so the higher the bet.