Balsis vs. Lassiter 1967

Welder84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not sure if this has been posted before, but I hadn't seen it. It's some footage of Balsis vs. Lassiter and a little bit of Frank McGown vs. Cisero Murphy, from the 1967 CBS Billiards Classic in New York.


Great video! Style wise I see lots of short strokes and elbow drop (fine with me). Even so they still played great!
 

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
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I'm saying every post I read on here the past 20 years says straight pool in the "classical era" was played completely differently than today. Both the style of play, and the equipment. Yet when I watch the oldest matches available, they both seem to be the same as today, to my eyes.
I think you are correct. The speed hasn’t changed much. The old U.S. made rubber was good stuff (Manhattan). Super fast! which made up for slow cloth, so all in all about the same speed in my opinion. You guys complain about Artemis being too fast, but from my memory, it is just like the good old original rubber.
 

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a few observations, that I've also seen in the other older videos:

...the speed of the roll on the bed
I was very surprised by how the CB kept rolling and rolling. The table seemed fast to me.

I also noticed Lassiter wearing sunglasses, which I assumed was to protect his eyes from bright lights needed for the TV cameras. I didn't realize that would affect the speed of the table.
 

Welder84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think you are correct. The speed hasn’t changed much. The old U.S. made rubber was good stuff (Manhattan). Super fast! which made up for slow cloth, so all in all about the same speed in my opinion. You guys complain about Artemis being too fast, but from my memory, it is just like the good old original rubber.

I grew up during the mass transition from Mali style to Simonis felt. From memory the old felt seemed to get very slow with humid conditions. So rooms without A/C wear tough.
 

Rusty in Montana

Well-known member
Thank you for sharing the video it was very enjoyable to see some of the greatest pool players of years gone by . Watching a young Frank McGown play I enjoyed immensely and I'd like to think I know how Cisero Murphy felt I never beat Frank either ha ha
 

Rusty in Montana

Well-known member
The 14.1 match I'd love to see in particular is Frank McGown vs Steve Mizerak when they played on ABC wide world of sports and Steve fainted on the table on live tv .

I agree the tables did seem very fast .
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
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I grew up during the mass transition from Mali style to Simonis felt. From memory the old felt seemed to get very slow with humid conditions. So rooms without A/C wear tough.

I have told this story a few times but it fits here. I found an old pool hall on the Mississippi River in Port Allen or West Baton Rouge as it was also called back in the seventies. The place had no AC and a big fan four feet or bigger, maybe six feet, in a hole in the wall. The tables were ten footers with deep cloth and the balls were clay. The cue sticks filled your hand like the big end of a softball bat. After being embarrassed within the first few games with balls stopping feet short of the hole I was shooting at, I learned it took a stroke to move balls around. I had one when needed but the falseness of my friend's strokes that weren't obsessed with pool were quickly revealed.

There was also an area near one corner pocket on the table I favored that was like the top of an old cigar box dropping marbles. You didn't have to aim at the pocket, you came at a shallow angle from the far end of the table and if the ball was rolling very slowly it would curve into this pocket, partially due to the bed of the table, partially due to directional felt.

Most of the object balls played fine but the seven ball rolled off badly and the four about halfway between the seven and the other balls. I would try to get the seven off early with a hard hit, didn't want to have to do much with shape off of the seven . One thing, each table had it's own set of balls there so you always got the same balls with the same table and you learned the eccentricities of both!

I didn't play there as much as I would have liked as the area was extremely corrupt and could be dangerous to outsiders. I stopped by a friend's house one afternoon and he had gotten a ticket in Port Allen. To show him just how corrupt the town was I called the sheriff's office with the most ridiculous story I could think of. "A friend of mine has a first cousin who has a brother that is a deputy there. Could you do something with this ticket?"

"Sure, tear it up." and it was gone. I told my friend that had gotten the ticket to never pay one in Port Allen, just make a phone call.

Late night memories of a time and place, and people long gone. I moved away and only found out recently that my friend who got the ticket died before he made fifty. Didn't see what he died of but it felt strange to know he had been gone all of these years. We met over a pool table and had been pretty tight for years back when. I had known his whole family. Funny how pool and pool tables were so woven into my life for ten years or a bit longer then I moved on to raising a family and didn't pick up a stick but maybe a couple times a year for decades.

Hu
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm saying every post I read on here the past 20 years says straight pool in the "classical era" was played completely differently than today. Both the style of play, and the equipment. Yet when I watch the oldest matches available, they both seem to be the same as today, to my eyes.
I didn't think Shaw was going into the rack at high speed in most of the break shots during my time watching him. Watch Crane vs Balsis. Sometimes he goes into the rack at high speed but a lot of the time he is just opening the rack and avoiding getting the cue ball in trouble.

14:42

 

Lawnboy77

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't think Shaw was going into the rack at high speed in most of the break shots during my time watching him. Watch Crane vs Balsis. Sometimes he goes into the rack at high speed but a lot of the time he is just opening the rack and avoiding getting the cue ball in trouble.

14:42

Thanks for posting this one to! It’s amazing at how long Irving Crane’s career spanned. I think they said his first World Championship was in 1942! Here he is in 1966 putting on a performance like this.
 

WildWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What is interesting to me is that 14.1 is STILL using the same rules 50 years after that match was played.
{3 fouls is 15 ball penalty, the break is the same, ...}
Basically, everything that 9-ball is not.
Actually, I think they played a 30 ball penalty for 3 fouls in either the 1989 (Chicago) or 1992 (New York) US Open, to discourage intentional scratches. Other than that, the rules have remained pretty pure.

All the best,
WW
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
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Actually, I think they played a 30 ball penalty for 3 fouls in either the 1989 (Chicago) or 1992 (New York) US Open, to discourage intentional scratches. ...
Yes. For a few years the rule was 20% of the length of the game. There was also an option for the incoming player to begin with ball in hand on the table as is rather than a rebreak. I'll start a separate thread in the 14.1 forum about it.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for posting this one to! It’s amazing at how long Irving Crane’s career spanned. I think they said his first World Championship was in 1942! Here he is in 1966 putting on a performance like this.
Just as amazing to me was he said in an interview he only played 3 days a week.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes. For a few years the rule was 20% of the length of the game. There was also an option for the incoming player to begin with ball in hand on the table as is rather than a rebreak. I'll start a separate thread in the 14.1 forum about it.
I like the idea of a larger penalty for intentional foul. It might help revive the game for the average viewer.
 

Bob Jewett

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On some shots it is impossible to tell for sure whether the shot was intentionally a foul or simply a missed hit. An example would be what looks like a missed thin hit on the full rack that is actually planned to put the cue ball on the head cushion. I think it would be hard to write a rule that does what you want.

For the three foul penalty, I think the situation is so uncommon in modern play that there is no reason to change the rule. When it does come up, I think it is an interesting wrinkle to the audience.
 
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