Bashing other aiming systems

BC21

Poolology
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Stan did it his way and he has admitted he would be lucky to recoup his money. But he is overly happy with the results and the feedback that he is getting from people that have bought it.

That's all that matters.

I tried to explain to Stan 3 or 4 years ago that he could have had just as nice of a book by self-publishing it. But he was adamant on paying someone else to do it. The end result would've been the same, a quality hardcover book, only he wouldn't have had to recoup any costs, other than editing services. It is what it is. And it's really nobody's business but Stan's.
 
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BC21

Poolology
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Silver Member
Stan's book has the name of the "publisher" and their phone number right in the book. I called to see if I could purchase the book directly from them and they said I have to contact the publisher, which is Stan. How is that private again? How is defending myself against ad hominem attacks (which I did not report) a crime?

That's a smart move for Butler. It's called free advertising. They put their name and number in the book just in case some reader out there wants to publish their own book. I mean, it looks like a great product, a quality product, so why not put your name on it? Anyway, they did edit the book and design the book, so it's only natural that they label it as published by them. I'd say it's not listed on their site because it was one time publishing deal, not a royalty deal.

Mark Wilson's book was done the same way with Blue Book Publications. And they are listed as the publisher also.

These types of publishing companies are genius. In a market where people can self-publish their own material at no cost, these publishers have figured out a way to become the middle man, dipping their pots into the self-publishing market.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am not in this dog fight. Lol.

And I'm not calling Butler Books because I have zero interest in it.

Anyway, there are 3 ways to officially get a book published.

Traditional Publishing... A publisher believes your book will do well and make money, so they publish it at zero cost to you. They do everything but write the book. Authors end up getting anywhere between 5% and 15% royalties (for life) on each book that sells, based on the retail price of the book and whether it's a hardcover or softcover.

Self Publishing... The author publishes the book and works with a print-on-demand company. The author can officially get a business license and name their publishing company "Bebob" (Bob Henning), or "Billiards Press" (Phil Capelle), or "Bookymonster" (me 😊). Authors typically get 40% to 80% royalties for each book that sells, depending on if it sells directly through the printing company or through one of book sellers the printer's worldwide marketing distribution network, which included about any bookstore chain, along with Walmart, Amazon, etc...

Author-Funded Publishing...Authors pay publishing companies or printing companies to print X amount of books for X amount of dollars. Books are printed and distributed to the author, who then sells them in order to get their investment back and make whatever profit is available. This is what Stan did with Butler Publishing. It's also what Mark Wilson did with Blue Book Publications.


Almost any pool and billiards book you've seen, or will see, is NOT published by a traditional publishing company. There's just not much of a market in pool and billiards to fancy traditional publishers.
I wonder if cookie is going to call you a liar now lol.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's all that matters.

I tried to explain to Stan 3 or 4 years ago that he could have just as nice of a book by self-publishing it. But he was adamant on paying someone else to do it. The end result would've been the same, a quality hardcover book, only he wouldn't have had to recoup any costs, other than editing services. It is what it is. And it's really nobody's business but Stan's.
He did self publish it.
 

BC21

Poolology
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Silver Member
I wonder if cookie is going to call you a liar now lol.

Lol.... if he does, I'll just ignore it. It is what it is. Like I said, it's Stan's business, not mine, not yours, not anyone's but his.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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... Almost any pool and billiards book you've seen, or will see, is NOT published by a traditional publishing company. There's just not much of a market in pool and billiards to fancy traditional publishers.
Bob Byrne published through traditional publishers. (Harcourt Brace, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Harvest) That allowed him to get over 500,000 total copies out there. They were the billiard standard in bookstores and billiard supply stores for a long time. Dr. Dave's book (Illustrated Principles) is also through a standard publisher and it has had at least seven printings. The company is Sterling Publishing which is owned by Barnes & Noble.

If you want to get your work out to a lot of people, a traditional publisher is going to be the best way to go but you have to convince them that it will be interesting to more than a tiny audience. If they are really interested, they will pay you an advance so you have more freedom to finish it.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lol.... if he does, I'll just ignore it. It is what it is. Like I said, it's Stan's business, not mine, not yours, not anyone's but his.
That is not the topic of this discussion with all due respect. The question was who published the book. It is clear now that Stan published it. Does it matter? No but Stan was incorrect in claiming that he had a publisher.
 

BC21

Poolology
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Silver Member
Bob Byrne published through traditional publishers. (Harcourt Brace, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Harvest) That allowed him to get over 500,000 total copies out there. They were the billiard standard in bookstores and billiard supply stores for a long time. Dr. Dave's book (Illustrated Principles) is also through a standard publisher and it has had at least seven printings. The company is Sterling Publishing which is owned by Barnes & Noble.

If you want to get your work out to a lot of people, a traditional publisher is going to be the best way to go but you have to convince them that it will be interesting to more than a tiny audience. If they are really interested, they will pay you an advance so you have more freedom to finish it.

That's why I said "almost" all pool books are not with traditional publishers. There have been a few exceptions, but not since self-publishing has become mainstream.

It's just not an attractive market for big publishing companies. I will say, however, that if a writer has self-published a book, and it is doing well, that would help land a major publisher. That's my goal.👍 And so far, it's all good.😁
 

BC21

Poolology
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Silver Member
That is not the topic of this discussion with all due respect. The question was who published the book. It is clear now that Stan published it. Does it matter? No but Stan was incorrect in claiming that he had a publisher.

Incorrect, yes. Lie... that's a stretch. I mean, if you're working with a publisher, paying for services, you could say you have a publisher and it wouldn't be lie. And especially since that's how those publishers want you to think.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Incorrect, yes. Lie... that's a stretch. I mean, if you're working with a publisher, paying for services, you could say you have a publisher and it wouldn't be lie. And especially since that's how those publishers want you to think.
I did not say he lied. I said he was incorrect. Of course it is also convenient that saying you have a publisher increases the cache of the book. Ms. Carol made it very clear to me that they produced the book and did not publish it. I would use the word insistent. There was no grey area in her voice.
 

JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What are you going to do about Dan whites digging into stans private business affairs? He contacted stans busines partners to try to dig up something that he can use to discredit him publicly. He’s not even on AZ anymore and he still continues to attack him.if you refuse to address this problem you have no credibility.
Debatable .
 

BC21

Poolology
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Silver Member
I did not say he lied. I said he was incorrect. Of course it is also convenient that saying you have a publisher increases the cache of the book. Ms. Carol made it very clear to me that they produced the book and did not publish it. I would use the word insistent. There was no grey area in her voice.

But does it really? Does it really "increase the cache of the book"?

I doubt very seriously that anyone cares who published the book. I don't think people make book-buying decisions based on who the publisher is. Lol. People buy books they want to read.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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Hello Mr Wilson

Long time no see.. Hope all is good
If you want to contact him, posts here are unlikely to work. Unless he has been lurking anonymously, he hasn't really been around since 2018. He stopped being a moderator quite a while ago.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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That's why I said "almost" all pool books are not with traditional publishers. ...
I'd agree if you said almost all titles. With the advent of self-publishing, it's trivial to get a title out there. I think pool players are worse off for that. The bar is too low and there are great steaming piles of titles on all subjects -- not just pool -- that are a waste of trees. I can think of one author who has published maybe 40 or 50 books about cue sports. I don't consider any of them worth what he is charging and many of them have net negative value.
 

BC21

Poolology
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Silver Member
I'd agree if you said almost all titles. With the advent of self-publishing, it's trivial to get a title out there. I think pool players are worse off for that. The bar is too low and there are great steaming piles of titles on all subjects -- not just pool -- that are a waste of trees. I can think of one author who has published maybe 40 or 50 books about cue sports. I don't consider any of them worth what he is charging and many of them have net negative value.

Buyer reviews usually do a fine job separating crap from value. Buyers pay attention to that.
 

Hungarian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you want to contact him, posts here are unlikely to work. Unless he has been lurking anonymously, he hasn't really been around since 2018. He stopped being a moderator quite a while ago.
I'm a little behind on things. Was another moderator appointed since Mr. Wilsons departure?
 

BC21

Poolology
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Silver Member
Wait a minute! Does this mean that all those lame old excuses he used about the book being tied up at the publishing company might have been a little bit disengenuous?

No. The publisher he was paying for editing and printing services had the book.
 
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