BCA Hall of Fame…no Mike Howerton?

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With the 2024 class and thread about them I had to look to see the members.

I was surprised that Mike Howerton isn’t in.

Maybe we can correct this next year with a campaign for him.
Meritorious Service is available every other year. So couldn’t be next year.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is an interesting conversation. Who all would be in that list of meritorious service. I assume they also need to be 40+. I bet we will be talking Emily in a decade. Mike Howerton, Mike Page, some of the action players that maybe weren’t getting Greatest Player attention, Ed Liddawi, Jeremy Jones, Dr Dave, Bob Jewett, George Fels, Mike Shamos, Billy Incardona, Randy Goettlicher, James Leone, Ra Hanna, Karim Belhaj, Ian Anderson, Ray Hansen, Tony Robles, Mike Zuglan?

I’m just brainstorming to broaden my awareness of who should be considered. I’m not saying everyone I mentioned is worthy. Some might have strong arguments against them.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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It is an interesting conversation. Who all would be in that list of meritorious service. I assume they also need to be 40+. I bet we will be talking Emily in a decade. Mike Howerton, Mike Page, some of the action players that maybe weren’t getting Greatest Player attention, Ed Liddawi, Jeremy Jones, Dr Dave, Bob Jewett, George Fels, Mike Shamos, Billy Incardona, Randy Goettlicher, James Leone, Ra Hanna, Karim Belhaj, Ian Anderson, Ray Hansen, Tony Robles, Mike Zuglan?

I’m just brainstorming to broaden my awareness of who should be considered. I’m not saying everyone I mentioned is worthy. Some might have strong arguments against them.

I do think some on your list shouldn't be out of the running as players yet. Ray Hansen I don't think there is any rush to put in but I do think he should be put in while still around to enjoy it. James Leone is real deserving as he seems to do a lot for pool for altruistic reasons more so than promoting his halls.

Mike Howerton, Mike Page, Mike Zuglan, all well due. Some of the others deserving on merit, maybe not just yet. The Hall might need to open the gates one year to clear an ever growing backlog.

Some I don't know them or their accomplishments well enough to judge. A lot of deserving people will be swept aside by later people who perhaps aren't as worthy. Hard to name and rank everyone.

Hu
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And that’s the point of the list too. You try to just think of names. Some maybe don’t make sense and then you overlook a Barry Behrman which you can argue for either way but certainly is a gross oversight of at least being on the list of considerations. Kinda funny that way.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Someone asked on Reddit recently, “Is this like the NFL where anyone decent gets in?” The answer is an emphatic no. It is trending as a very small circle of only the most highly celebrated figures in our sport. So I do kinda think they should never clear the gates. Let the small opening force us to make the club special and force us to prioritize. Some very merit-worthy people should not get in. It may be a shame for them. But I think opening the gates might be a shame for those that did get in if we end up cheapening it.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Someone asked on Reddit recently, “Is this like the NFL where anyone decent gets in?” The answer is an emphatic no. It is trending as a very small circle of only the most highly celebrated figures in our sport. So I do kinda think they should never clear the gates. Let the small opening force us to make the club special and force us to prioritize. Some very merit-worthy people should not get in. It may be a shame for them. But I think opening the gates might be a shame for those that did get in if we end up cheapening it.


Matt, too large a group cheapens a Hall of Fame. That is why I specified one year. It also cheapens the Hall for the newest and most popular nominations with today's voters to get in while excluding greater nominees that they don't remember.

The perspective of hall of fame voters tends to be looking through the wrong end of a pair of binoculars. Horse racing in England, fans voted a trainer the crookedest in racing. They voted his lead jockey the most honorable!

I want a Hall of Fame to be more than a popularity contest. Easier said than done!

Hu
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What about COREY DEUEL.., Pool has a Short Memory.
This conversation has been about who is a good candidate for Meritorious Service, not Greatest Player.

There is something to be said about his impact on the game. He discovered and exploited flaws in racking advancements in the game to a degree the rules needed to be changed. That’s not nothing.

But if you look at his actual achievements. No world championships. He had a US Open win with a soft break asterisk. But if you want to hoist him up in the rafters with the likes of Mosconi, Sigel, Strickland, Varner, Reyes, Pagalayan, Appleton, SVB, etc. his accomplishments are far short.

There are plenty of players (some not yet eligible yet by age) the clearly demonstrate career achievements that are just over the bar worthy of the HoF that Deuel hasn’t matched, e.g. Filler, Ouschan, FSR, Biado, Chang, etc.

When you look at resumes really closely, there’s names even stronger than his that you could argue haven’t done enough yet to make their case when they are eligible. Shaw is a great example. No world championships. His big titles are US Open, Intl Open (x2), Hanoi, and DCC Bigfoot. As respectable as they are the SBEs and Turning Stones don’t really make the case. His Mosconi Cup MVPs probably will nudge him over the bar. But a world championship would really seal the deal for him. And my point isn’t to debate Jayson but just to illustrate how a player of his caliber can be borderline and then you look back on a Deuel and start noticing a pretty wide gap.
 

GoldCrown

Pool players have more balls
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Silver Member
Mike H.... is there a better Ambassador? Not really. Consider what comes out of AZB. Equipment sales, Instructors/Lesson, Advertised tournaments, Friendships. Everything you need to know about pool is here. Without AZB this no us. Pool would decline.
 

azhousepro

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With no disrespect to Mike Howerton, there is a chasm between him and Mike Panozzo when it comes to billiard media. I dont see anyone else on the media list right now that’s close, as far as media leaders go. Harold Simonsen comes to mind, but Panozzo in my opinion was head and shoulders ahead. Putting someone in that is in the media is a tricky thing since the billiard media members vote on it. But Panozzo’s career and dedication to putting billiards media out stand out as unique in the industry.

Wow, I’m glad you didn’t mean any disrespect. Otherwise, I might have wondered.

On a slightly more serious note, Mike P is the elder statesman of the game in my opinion. He has published the gold standard when it comes to magazines and has been covering this industry for four decades.

I think that Mike being inducted might open the door for some other very deserving people. (Jerry Forsyth, Conrad Burkman, Scott Smith, Jay Helfert, etc, etc).

Chasm.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Silver Member
I was thinking yesterday that Jay isn't that far out. I don't think he will get in just because it is such a small slot but still he has done a lot for pool. Laughing at Mike's not too serious reaction but he is clearly a Hall of Famer. Not if but when. It seems that all hall of fames have some glaring omissions though.

Maybe pool needs a hustlers hall of fame for those who were the most outstanding and the biggest lowlifes. After sneaking around most of their lives, FAME!

Hu
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Maybe adding a couple a year for a while wouldn't be out of the question, and get some of these names caught up without having a huge class... it's a shame that Mark Griffin wasn't inducted while he was here to be a part of it. How many others that we're talking about are going to miss having it happen while they're still with us?
 

azhousepro

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Maybe adding a couple a year for a while wouldn't be out of the question, and get some of these names caught up without having a huge class... it's a shame that Mark Griffin wasn't inducted while he was here to be a part of it. How many others that we're talking about are going to miss having it happen while they're still with us?
I know it stung Mark that he wasn’t recognized while he was alive.
 

manopr350

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This conversation has been about who is a good candidate for Meritorious Service, not Greatest Player.

There is something to be said about his impact on the game. He discovered and exploited flaws in racking advancements in the game to a degree the rules needed to be changed. That’s not nothing.

But if you look at his actual achievements. No world championships. He had a US Open win with a soft break asterisk. But if you want to hoist him up in the rafters with the likes of Mosconi, Sigel, Strickland, Varner, Reyes, Pagalayan, Appleton, SVB, etc. his accomplishments are far short.

There are plenty of players (some not yet eligible yet by age) the clearly demonstrate career achievements that are just over the bar worthy of the HoF that Deuel hasn’t matched, e.g. Filler, Ouschan, FSR, Biado, Chang, etc.

When you look at resumes really closely, there’s names even stronger than his that you could argue haven’t done enough yet to make their case when they are eligible. Shaw is a great example. No world championships. His big titles are US Open, Intl Open (x2), Hanoi, and DCC Bigfoot. As respectable as they are the SBEs and Turning Stones don’t really make the case. His Mosconi Cup MVPs probably will nudge him over the bar. But a world championship would really seal the deal for him. And my point isn’t to debate Jayson but just to illustrate how a player of his caliber can be borderline and then you look back on a Deuel and start noticing a pretty wide gap.
Pardon my bias, but did Kim Davenport elected to the Hall of Fame?
I checked his resume and the best he did at the World stage was a semi finalist in the 1992 WPA World Nine Ball Championship. This could be erroneous information ?
Gerda Hofstatter won a World Championchip in 1995 when there was hardly any competition. I don’t remember what else did she accomplish.
Jean Balukas retired in 1988
When Alison came to the seen she “force” retirement to many of the female “professionals “ players that were on the tour. In those days there was hardly any competition.
I don’t intend to be argumentative but I truly believe that Corey belongs BCA Hall of Fame. After all it’s the Billiard Congress of America. Not China or any other country in the world.
 
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