Best "Affordable" 4th Axis

[gio-XZero]

Ok, got it. You don't actually know the answer so I will have to contact Leadshine. Thats fine as the question I was asking is not an easy one. You can micro step all you want but the actual position count is what I want. I just could not figure out how to ask you without loosing you. For example I can have the regular clearpath motor and set its input count to 6400. Now the pulse coder is only capable of 800 counts. So the motor waits till it sees 4 pulses before it steps once. Now on the other hand the clearpath motor with the 6400 pulse coder on it would step ever pulse sent to it at a smaller increment. Wait, did I say the clearpath had a 6400 count pulse coder? That comes in handing when dealing with a faster or more course ballscrew.

Jim.

As i tell people, the 5mm pitch ballscrew is the best to use.But most say they want 10 or 25 pitch. I have pitch from 2mm up to 50mm , ground ,rolled, rolled than surface ground.

Mach3 for example can only put out 100khz, which would be super slow with a high count encoder.

Leadshine you can also change to any encoder count you would like.

 

[gio-XZero]

George, in one sentence you claim there is nothing wrong with clearpath. In another you claim they would work great for other applications but not for a router.

These statements though I am sure you did not me to counter-dict each other do and make you sound like you don't know any better.

As far as the RAS function and Mach 3 it is not needed. Mach 3 offers an accel and decel function and will smooth out axes start and stop functions. This is not what causes rounded corners. I would suggest reading up on CV mode. If you don't have that information and how to set it up in Mach 3 let me know and I will provide a link to the PDF.

By the way nice plugs on your machines. I don't blame the shameless advertisement but see it for what it is. I am not a customer as I prefer to build my own machines and I don't like your style of gantry. Not saying it a bad designs as it is most popular. They lend themselves to the easiest builds.

I would be a guy that would stand up and say buy a machine from Xzero. That would happen if you tell me that your ball screws are now held with the correct angular contact bearings and nut to pre-load those bearings. If your still just using a coupler and a regular bearing I will advise against it for obvious reasons.

Jim.

CV - constant velocity into corners has always cause a lot of people problems with corners and other thing with all kinds of motors and controllers. Thats why some jobs people use EMC2

The ballscrew do have tread and bolts for the Raptors now. Because i am moving a little away from hobby market with new style machine and will sell Raptors just as aluminum parts kit for people to use their own rails and ballscrew .
Again , the bearing i used come pre loaded and do not need to be adjusted.

You don't like the style of gantry, that is not a problem at all. No one is forced to like my machines

Again , every motor and driver has a right application.

 

[gio-XZero]

Ryan

I do have an XZero Raptor machine. I've had it for a couple of years now.

We use it for inlay parts mostly. I have 2 NSK spindles with ATC, and 2 vacuum hold down assemblies. We run 2 inlay slabs, 2x24, at a time and the machine does very well.

I don't use proximity sensors for homing as I prefer a very particular optical sensor. I also currently run this machine with steppers run with Gecko G203V drives. It currently holds very good tolerances and rapids at speeds up to 800ipm. I run it around 500 just so none of my employees get caught off guard and hurt themselves. I do use XZero's ball screws with a 10mm pitch on X and Y, and an acme screw on the Z.

I don't have ATC setup on it yet so we currently do the tool changes manually. I could run a video of it cutting some parts when I get back from the show.


Royce

The machines are very much different now from your, That's because of input i get from people on them

 

[gio-XZero]

I dont really understand? Just because Clearpath is not my choice of motors and going to keep going on and on.
Am i not allowed to choice what i want?

 

[gio-XZero]

First machine i had sold to a pool cues maker ,was about 6 years ago and it was a supported rail machine.
Sorry meant to quote on Randy post

 

[Mc2]

As i tell people, the 5mm pitch ballscrew is the best to use.But most say they want 10 or 25 pitch. I have pitch from 2mm up to 50mm , ground ,rolled, rolled than surface ground.

Mach3 for example can only put out 100khz, which would be super slow with a high count encoder.

Leadshine you can also change to any encoder count you would like.

George, first let me thank you for providing good information for conversation. Yes the limit of Mach 3 is 100k. However several people in this community including myself are limited not at 100K but 4Meg. I have yet to see a pc printer port or USB port compare to an ESS smoothstepper. I could get the great resolution at any of those pitch screws.

I am glad to hear that you are adding the support nut at the end of your ballscrew. Keep in mind that has nothing to do with a pre-loaded ball nut. The angular contact bearings are to prevent the ballscrew from moving laterally when the axis is moved. This will cause back lash even worse than a ball nut in some cases. It sometimes only happens at faster moves though and not all of the time.

As far as me not liking a gantry. That would not be correct. I don't care for the style you build. That is not to say that I would not recommend it to others. Yours is the most common type and of those yours does seem to be the best fit for what we as cue makers need. I don't build what I like for others unless I choose to. I don't want to put up with others that don't know what they are doing. I am of course always happy to help when someone ask though. You keep up the good work improving your machines and you will do well. Please keep in mind that I don't believe your motor control system is the best one. Maybe for some of your customers but not all of them.

Jim.

 

[gio-XZero]

George, first let me thank you for providing good information for conversation. Yes the limit of Mach 3 is 100k. However several people in this community including myself are limited not at 100K but 4Meg. I have yet to see a pc printer port or USB port compare to an ESS smoothstepper. I could get the great resolution at any of those pitch screws.

I am glad to hear that you are adding the support nut at the end of your ballscrew. Keep in mind that has nothing to do with a pre-loaded ball nut. The angular contact bearings are to prevent the ballscrew from moving laterally when the axis is moved. This will cause back lash even worse than a ball nut in some cases. It sometimes only happens at faster moves though and not all of the time.

As far as me not liking a gantry. That would not be correct. I don't care for the style you build. That is not to say that I would not recommend it to others. Yours is the most common type and of those yours does seem to be the best fit for what we as cue makers need. I don't build what I like for others unless I choose to. I don't want to put up with others that don't know what they are doing. I am of course always happy to help when someone ask though. You keep up the good work improving your machines and you will do well. Please keep in mind that I don't believe your motor control system is the best one. Maybe for some of your customers but not all of them.

Jim.

Thanks and not a problem , Thanks on machines.Again i never said the easyservos are the best. They are the best for my application and have work out great without even one complaint.

I have asked a few times, but never get reply.The holding surface area from 10mm bolt to a 10mm clamp.

After 8 years not one have moved and never will. If you do the simple mathematics on them.You will see the difference.

 

[RBC]

I have asked a few times, but never get reply.The holding surface area from 10mm bolt to a 10mm clamp.

After 8 years not one have moved and never will. If you do the simple mathematics on them.You will see the difference.

The reason you don't get an answer George is your talking about 2 entirely different things.

With the clamp style that you previously used, the surface area is very important because the friction of the clamp to the shaft is what must hold the working load of the machine.

With a threaded attachment, it's the strength of the threads and the steel that holds the working load. The friction from the surface area is only relevant to whether or not the nut can come lose or rotate. Friction carries zero operating load in this type application.


Royce

 

[gio-XZero]

The reason you don't get an answer George is your talking about 2 entirely different things.

With the clamp style that you previously used, the surface area is very important because the friction of the clamp to the shaft is what must hold the working load of the machine.

With a threaded attachment, it's the strength of the threads and the steel that holds the working load. The friction from the surface area is only relevant to whether or not the nut can come lose or rotate. Friction carries zero operating load in this type application.


Royce

I guess if it was a problem, it would have happened years ago. i would have changed it back to threads i had when i first started. But still to this days there never been a problem. Try a collar clamp and see if you can move it .
But you are right about threads, they are better to use. But never been a problem with loads

 

[RBC]

George,

I have the collar clamp. That's how the screws you sold me are setup, and I didn't change it.

No, it hasn't slipped, and yes that is good.

The only reason anyone has questioned it is because it's the first time any of us have ever seen a setup like that. And, we don't see any benefit for doing it that way either. In other words why change it from the industry standard that already worked.

I've not seen a commercial machine with ball screws ever with just the clamp to hold the screw in place. I've seen hundreds of machines and they all had a threaded fastener lead screws.

I think that most are much more curious as to why do it that way than critical of how you did it.


Royce

 

[gio-XZero]

George,

I have the collar clamp. That's how the screws you sold me are setup, and I didn't change it.

No, it hasn't slipped, and yes that is good.

The only reason anyone has questioned it is because it's the first time any of us have ever seen a setup like that. And, we don't see any benefit for doing it that way either. In other words why change it from the industry standard that already worked.

I've not seen a commercial machine with ball screws ever with just the clamp to hold the screw in place. I've seen hundreds of machines and they all had a threaded fastener lead screws.

I think that most are much more curious as to why do it that way than critical of how you did it.


Royce

Ballscrews come with out ends bearings installed.People install bearings .With thread people would strip or crush the bearing. So tighter fit and clamp turn out to not cause any problem. On small ballscrew it will take 2.5 ton axial load to move it

 

[dunkelcustomcue]

Okay I know everyone was waiting on pins and needles to see what I decided to get for my 4th axis. I went with the 50 to 1 and a 65mm chuck. It came with a cheap Nema 23 stepper that is being replaced. All my servos and the 4th axis are out being rewired so I can use Mach. Thanks Royce for taking the time to talk to me on the phone!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Thomas Wayne]

I dont really understand? Just because Clearpath is not my choice of motors and going to keep going on and on.
Am i not allowed to choice what i want?

Of course you have a choice - no one has ever said you don't.

What WE object to is you telling lies about Clearpath motors - which is what you are doing when you say they are not good for CNC applications. They're actually GREAT for CNC applications, and just because you have chosen to remain ignorant about them does not give you the right to make negative statements about them that are untrue. It's really as simple as that.

TW

 

[LGSM3]

View attachment 393822
Okay I know everyone was waiting on pins and needles to see what I decided to get for my 4th axis. I went with the 50 to 1 and a 65mm chuck. It came with a cheap Nema 23 stepper that is being replaced. All my servos and the 4th axis are out being rewired so I can use Mach. Thanks Royce for taking the time to talk to me on the phone!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Steve

Are you trying to de-rail this thread!

 

[LGSM3]

George....I actually agree with you on the 5mm screw! I think its a far better choice but unfortunately i'm in that stupid camp that wants go fast.

 

[gio-XZero]

Of course you have a choice - no one has ever said you don't.

What WE object to is you telling lies about Clearpath motors - which is what you are doing when you say they are not good for CNC applications. They're actually GREAT for CNC applications, and just because you have chosen to remain ignorant about them does not give you the right to make negative statements about them that are untrue. It's really as simple as that.

TW

Ok Sir Wayne, so your saying there no problem on CNC router, plasma cutter, foam cutter, mills all with one motor and you have seen them or installed on them?

 

[gio-XZero]

George....I actually agree with you on the 5mm screw! I think its a far better choice but unfortunately i'm in that stupid camp that wants go fast.

Yes almost everyone wants to do rapids 20x faster than they can cut, plus don't even have a tool changer to need rapids

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Ok Sir Wayne, so your saying there no problem on CNC router, plasma cutter, foam cutter, mills all with one motor and you have seen them or installed on them?

"Sir Wayne"? You know, George, your snotty attitude hasn't helped in this discussion at all. It's the second worst trait you have.

Your FIRST worst trait is you either don't read well or don't bother to read what others have written. You seem so stuck on insisting anything you say is just automatically "right" that you obviously miss a lot of opportunity to learn something you are clearly ignorant about.

I've already answered your question about my experience with Clearpath motors. Go back and read my previous posts - and maybe pay attention this time. The fact that you aren't aware of this is truly disappointing, but says a LOT about how "informed" you may be on other aspects of CNC. Kind of scary, actually.

TW

 

[gio-XZero]

"Sir Wayne"? You know, George, your snotty attitude hasn't helped in this discussion at all. It's the second worst trait you have.

Your FIRST worst trait is you either don't read well or don't bother to read what others have written. You seem so stuck on insisting anything you say is just automatically "right" that you obviously miss a lot of opportunity to learn something you are clearly ignorant about.

I've already answered your question about my experience with Clearpath motors. Go back and read my previous posts - and maybe pay attention this time. The fact that you aren't aware of this is truly disappointing, but says a LOT about how "informed" you may be on other aspects of CNC. Kind of scary, actually.

TW

Calling you Sir Wayne is far from being disrespectful. i get same introduction from every company i deal with overseas everyday. I have never talked to you or deal with you. So Sir Wayne is a lot better than calling you Thomas. Sorry i didn't even think, maybe your a female and that was forum name.Sorry if you are
Ok i understand if you cant answer the question,No problem

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Calling you Sir Wayne is far from being disrespectful. i get same introduction from every company i deal with overseas everyday. I have never talked to you or deal with you. So Sir Wayne is a lot better than calling you Thomas. Sorry i didn't even think, maybe your a female and that was forum name.Sorry if you are
Ok i understand if you cant answer the question,No problem

I HAVE answered the question, George - multiple times, in fact. Sorry you either have very poor reading comprehension or the memory of a goldfish.

TW