bj ussery

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
yea. whatever advantages are gained by conceding appear to be nominal, disadvantages could be many..
 

Wolven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In MMA and Boxing a stoppage is different from conceding a rack (in my opinion).

Chess is not a sport (rotation pool is).
and the other stuff apples and oranges...

Chess is a sport in a lot of countries. It is just English definition doesn't recognize it.
 

CharlesUFarley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In my opinion, his behavior was disrespectful to his opponent and to the streamers. I'm sure he is a good guy, but he robbed his opponent of a quality victory and he robbed the streamers of the ability to put on a quality stream for which they went through a considerable amount of effort to advertise and obtain sponsorship. That effort was probably not very financially rewarding if I had to guess, but I think the players owe it to each other, the streamers, and the sponsors to put their best foot forward in terms of play and sportsmanship.

As a side note, I agree with the previous comment about having the kids on the microphone for all the same reasons. I'm sure they are absolutely adorable, but it did become distracting.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Despite the numerous well considered posts, I find this thread to be more about the theoretical than the practical. Let's face it, BJ just barely crossed the line here. I met him this year for the first time at the US Open 9-ball and can vouch that he's a quality guy, not to mention a rock-solid pool player.

Some of us are OK with concessions and others are not, and that's OK. Whether concessions are to be permitted is something that needs to be covered in the player's meeting, with any penalties of pertinence identified.
 
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dendweller

Active member
What's wrong with conceding? It shows respect to your opponent and doesn't waste anyone's time delaying the inevitable. For comparison, chess players almost always resign when their opponent gets a dominant position. This is understood and accepted by all without any issues.
I think one of the reasons for not allowing concession is to take away a players ability to shark the other.

Player A gives player B a nine ball, then another. Player B is on the nine in a subsequent game, doesn't seem like a difficult shot but player A doesn't give it to him.

Player B has this in his head as he's getting down for the shot.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Despite the numerous well considered posts, I find this thread to be more about the theoretical than the practical. Let's face it, BJ just barely crossed the line here. I met him this year for the first time at the US Open 9-ball and can vouch that he's a quality guy, not to mention a rock-solid pool player.

Some of us are OK with concessions and others are not, and that's OK. Whether concessions are to be permitted is something that needs to be covered in the player's meeting, with any penalties of pertinence identified.
Concessions particularly with still numerous balls on the table is also a bit of an issue when you have a player auction / Calcutta and someone else may have purchased all or part of that player. It’s not really fair to that investor, but I certainly do feel that when you buy any or all of a player in the Calcutta, that’s the risk you take.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just watched the match. BJ got very frustrated early in the match, then just conceded Shaun each of the last 4 games with still a number of balls left on the table in each rack, including after what appeared to be intentionally launching the cue ball off the table for the 2nd break in a row - alternate breaks.

I agree with the OP - a disgraceful performance by BJ in regards to not handling his emotions, although he did at least appear to keep his mouth shut, unlike Earl does when he gets rattled.

This is certainly not the first time this has happened with BJ - he has a reputation of being a poor loser.
I did see Earl quit a match once due to slow play by the opponent but when he starts one stroking shots don't assume he is "rattled". I've seen him come from behind to beat world class players when he went into his "rattled" act.
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
I watched that match and the end was a let down after a really nice event. If a player is going to start acting wonky they need to concede the entire match and be done. No shame in that. They aren't feeling it and time to quit. To continue playing after the start of that behavior is wrong for the game in many ways. I have had people do this to me and it makes me uncomfortable and shows the match no respect. And then what do you do if your opponent makes a mistake? Win that rack and mount a comeback after acting like a jackass? Walk away and get your head together.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Please. Pool is barely a sport. Chess?? No. Not even close.
Chess is recognized as a sport.
The International Olympic Committee has recognized chess as a sport. While this acknowledgement falls shy of recognition as an "Olympic Sport" which would merit inclusion in the Games, it is an acknowledgement of the sport-like properties inherent in chess.

****That is not my answer, only what I found on the interweb.
 
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easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Chess is recognized as a sport.
The International Olympic Committee has recognized chess as a sport. While this acknowledgement falls shy of recognition as an "Olympic Sport" which would merit inclusion in the Games, it is an acknowledgement of the sport-like properties inherent in chess.

****That is not my answer, only what I found on the interweb.
People need to stop calling all of their hobbies “sports”.
 

krelldog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mike Zuglan's rule should be the standard....you concede...you lose the next game too.

If I paid my tournament entry just like everybody else....I want to shoot when its my turn.

Why should my arrogant opponent stop me from taking my turn?

I've seen Earl do this to over matched opponents...and its a disgrace.

I'm not talking about conceding a straight in 9 ball. I'm referring to sweeping away multiple balls.

I've seen BJ play on other streams and he always seemed respectful. This was ridiculous.

Hopefully he apologized to everyone that was affected. That was bullshit and childish.
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No shame in that. They aren't feeling it and time to quit. To continue playing after the start of that behavior is wrong for the game in many ways.

at this level, I agree..these guys prob have real jobs and lives that aren't influenced by pool
that said, I would hate to send the msg to anybody watching, that's it's ok to just up and quit
feeling 100% is unlikely..we all get down sometimes, but how we deal with it is usually on us
so it's no surprise that many athletes/people admired most, had to go through a lot to succeed
it's easy to sympathize with someone having a bad time, and maybe bj really hit his limit
I hope he's able to learn something from the match, and come back even stronger next time
 

JC

Coos Cues
Gold Member
Mike Zuglan's rule should be the standard....you concede...you lose the next game too.

If I paid my tournament entry just like everybody else....I want to shoot when its my turn.

Why should my arrogant opponent stop me from taking my turn?

I've seen Earl do this to over matched opponents...and its a disgrace.

I'm not talking about conceding a straight in 9 ball. I'm referring to sweeping away multiple balls.

I've seen BJ play on other streams and he always seemed respectful. This was ridiculous.

Hopefully he apologized to everyone that was affected. That was bullshit and childish.
Agree 100%. I came to play pool and if I win so be it. Having balls swept off the table and being awarded a win is not fulfilling. It's worse than a 9 ball break. And all I learned from it is that you're a baby.

You missed now sit down, shut up and take your medicine. When I'm done it's your turn.

Also agree conceding routine multiple ball run outs early in a match is usually a move to keep you from getting warmed up and in stroke. I'll never forget when John Schmidt did this to one of our local guys who then won a couple games and sent John to the loser's side of a regional size event in Springfield, Oregon with pros and amateurs. Then he told his too cool for school buddy from California he was bunking with that he just lost to a "super nobody" loudly enough for people to hear.

Is it any wonder these people can't make an honest living out of pool?
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
People need to stop calling all of their hobbies “sports”.
Possibly, I am not the one who categorized chess a sport but where do you draw the line? My hobby/sport is auto racing, I have seen people I know leave the track in an ambulance and some who have died participating in their "hobby". I believe it was Hemmingway who said:

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”​

 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Possibly, I am not the one who categorized chess a sport but where do you draw the line? My hobby/sport is auto racing, I have seen people I know leave the track in an ambulance and some who have died participating in their "hobby". I believe it was Hemmingway who said:

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”​

Riding is a sport.
Screenshot_20211201-112212__01.jpg
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Possibly, I am not the one who categorized chess a sport but where do you draw the line? My hobby/sport is auto racing, I have seen people I know leave the track in an ambulance and some who have died participating in their "hobby". I believe it was Hemmingway who said:

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”​

That's a great question! Everyone basically has to draw their own line, and its a fun exercise. When someone tells me what criteria they use to define a "sport", it's pretty easy to come up with an example that meets their criteria, but they DO NOT consider a sport. Here are a few examples off the top of my head:

They say: "It's on ESPN, so it's a sport"
I say: Really? Anything on ESPN? Hot dog eating? Drone racing? Madden video game? Spelling bee?

They say: "The dictionary defines it as 'an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.'"
I say: How much exertion is required? Hop scotch? Mini-golf? Carrying eggs on spoons? Hula hooping? Cup stacking?

I've been pretty adamant over the years in these discussions that I do not consider pool a sport. I love pool, been playing for over 25 years, but I just can't call it a "sport". I have my own criteria in my head of what I would consider a sport vs a game/hobby. The more baffling thing to me is why so many others take offense to my opinion on the matter (not saying that's what you're doing). People get pretty testy with me when I share my feelings on the matter. To each their own, I just ask people to be consistent with their own definitions.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Chess is recognized as a sport.
The International Olympic Committee has recognized chess as a sport. While this acknowledgement falls shy of recognition as an "Olympic Sport" which would merit inclusion in the Games, it is an acknowledgement of the sport-like properties inherent in chess.

****That is not my answer, only what I found on the interweb.
Like anyone gives a flying fk what ioc says. The shit they call sports these days is a joke. I haven't watched any olympic nonsense in yrs.
 
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