Brunswick's Evolution

[TATE]

I am posting this to show the evolution of the Brunswick Willie Hoppe Titlist, from it's earliest beginnings.

The first cue on the far left is a Model 26 1/2 with mother of pearl wedge and early BBC decal. The early decals were clear between the BBC text and the eagle. This cue was made somewhere around 1910 - 1915 and shows the veneer treatment that would eventually become the Titlist. Note the veneer colors are purple, light green, purple, natutral. The veneers are thin.

The second cue is an early Willie Hoppe Titlist. This is probably one of the earliest, early 1940's. Note the sharp inner points. The veneer colors are purple, green, purple, natural. The early cues did not have the blue we have become accustomed to.

The next two cues are Bruswick 26 1/2's including a rarer ebony cue. These BBC decals are from the early 1920's and have a solid red between the eagle and the BBC. both of these cues have the same veneer colors as the early Titlist.

At some point, I would say late 1940's to early 1950's, the green became blue, which is the color we are used to seeing. Later, the colors became even more vivid.

Chris

 

[1pRoscoe]

I hate you, Chris.... I truly and honestly do....

Just kidding, as always, quite the wealth of knowledge with the collection to boot!

 

[TATE]

I hate you, Chris.... I truly and honestly do....

Just kidding, as always, quite the wealth of knowledge with the collection to boot!

Can you believe all 4 of these cues are almost dead straight? The old cues are kind of addictive.

Chris

 

[jazznpool]

Nice bit of history there Chris, thanks. IMO from its inception forward, the standard Willie Hoppe Titlist colors are more accurately described as: magenta, teal, mahogany, and natural. The Brunswick precursor cues have a subdued lime green instead of teal, purpleheart substitutes for the magenta colored veneer, and sometimes the mahogany veneer appears a lighter shade than on the standard Titlist. My 3 cents.

Martin

I am posting this to show the evolution of the Brunswick Willie Hoppe Titlist, from it's earliest beginnings.

The first cue on the far left is a Model 26 1/2 with mother of pearl wedge and early BBC decal. The early decals were clear between the BBC text and the eagle. This cue was made somewhere around 1910 - 1915 and shows the veneer treatment that would eventually become the Titlist. Note the veneer colors are purple, light green, purple, natutral. The veneers are thin.

The second cue is an early Willie Hoppe Titlist. This is probably one of the earliest, early 1940's. Note the sharp inner points. The veneer colors are purple, green, purple, natural. The early cues did not have the blue we have become accustomed to.

The next two cues are Bruswick 26 1/2's including a rarer ebony cue. These BBC decals are from the early 1920's and have a solid red between the eagle and the BBC. both of these cues have the same veneer colors as the early Titlist.

At some point, I would say late 1940's to early 1950's, the green became blue, which is the color we are used to seeing. Later, the colors became even more vivid.

Chris

 

[runscott]

I had an ebony one almost exactly like the one on the right, also dead straight. I took it out once and hit some balls with it - very playable. Yours has incredible veneers - never seen any that nice on an old Model 26 1/2.

I still think the color scheme on all of these cues was the same, but that some of the colors were made more vivid over the years, and that there were some quality control issues with the older ones. I have an old Model 26 1/2 that has bright gold (almost bright yellow) veneers for some of the second veneers from the inside, while others are maple (on the same cue). I also have cues that have purple for the last veneer, and on the same cue, veneers that are clearly blue. I think that's a quality problem. It could be a partial color-blindness problem on my part, but I've never seen consistently blue veneers for the 3rd one - only dull green, emerald, and very bright green.

Also, regarding the second veneer that looks purple - I have seen some that looked purple but were really just a dark maple color. Basically, I'm saying that I think the "intent" was the same old standard 4 veneer colors pattern that the cues in the 1950's have, just less quality and more fading on the early cues, and an intentional increase in brightness in the early 1960's.

 

[manwon]

I am posting this to show the evolution of the Brunswick Willie Hoppe Titlist, from it's earliest beginnings.

The first cue on the far left is a Model 26 1/2 with mother of pearl wedge and early BBC decal. The early decals were clear between the BBC text and the eagle. This cue was made somewhere around 1910 - 1915 and shows the veneer treatment that would eventually become the Titlist. Note the veneer colors are purple, light green, purple, natutral. The veneers are thin.

The second cue is an early Willie Hoppe Titlist. This is probably one of the earliest, early 1940's. Note the sharp inner points. The veneer colors are purple, green, purple, natural. The early cues did not have the blue we have become accustomed to.

The next two cues are Bruswick 26 1/2's including a rarer ebony cue. These BBC decals are from the early 1920's and have a solid red between the eagle and the BBC. both of these cues have the same veneer colors as the early Titlist.

At some point, I would say late 1940's to early 1950's, the green became blue, which is the color we are used to seeing. Later, the colors became even more vivid.

Chris

Thanks Chris for sharing this information!!!! Great post!!

Manwon

 

[Fast Lenny]

Nice cues,suprised there still straight though,the titlist i come across are pretty bad.

 

[bogey54311]

there's some stuff your missing chris.
brunswick had an earlier white labeled one also.
i have a 360 with one......ill get photo's.
veneer colors were all over the place.
yellow, orange, blue, red, etc.
they made all kinds of combos in the VERY early ages.
i'll look for some pics in my archives.
as some of you know, i am a recovering BBC/titlist addict.
your not helping any showing these pics to me chris.

nice cues bro.



chris G

 

[runscott]

Here is a good example of odd veneer color combinations on the same cue. I think part of what Rambow and Brunswick were aiming for with the Titlist replacement of the Model 26 1/2 was better quality control, because you didn't see as much of this with Titlists. That orange veneer looks even more orange in 'real life'. The cue with a blue veneer and purple veneer is even weirder looking.

 

[TATE]

Nice bit of history there Chris, thanks. IMO from its inception forward, the standard Willie Hoppe Titlist colors are more accurately described as: magenta, teal, mahogany, and natural. The Brunswick precursor cues have a subdued lime green instead of teal, purpleheart substitutes for the magenta colored veneer, and sometimes the mahogany veneer appears a lighter shade than on the standard Titlist. My 3 cents.

Martin

For those who don't know, in addition to being a cue dealer and a competitive pool player, Jazznpool (Martin) makes his own premium veneers for cue makers. He showed me some samples and it was very educational to see the wide variety of colors available.

It's interesting to see how the colors evolved over time.

Chris

 

[TATE]

there's some stuff your missing chris.
brunswick had an earlier white labeled one also.
i have a 360 with one......ill get photo's.
veneer colors were all over the place.
yellow, orange, blue, red, etc.
they made all kinds of combos in the VERY early ages.
i'll look for some pics in my archives.
as some of you know, i am a recovering BBC/titlist addict.
your not helping any showing these pics to me chris.

nice cues bro.



chris G

Hi Chris,

I would really like to see the pics too.

I am also doing this thred so we can refer people to it in the future when they ask about the older cues, Titlists, etc.

Chris

 

[bogey54311]

i just found a ton of info on them.
will be posting shortly........


chris G

 

[bogey54311]

BBC info

1912- red label introduced. they had the same designs as the last 20 years.
the merry widow (model 28) was introduced in this catolog.

1915- white label introduced. (see pic below on 26 1/2)




twine wraps were introduced in 1901
silk wraps were introduced in 1911
cork wraps in 1912
irish linen in 1916
leather became very popular in 1923

brunswick went back to the red lables in the early 20's.

1923- hub cue introduced. (rambow creation).


in the late 30's, brunswick introduced the challenger, keenshot, tru-balance, hi-run, masterstroke, carom king, and the medalist professional.

around 1940, the willie hoppe titlist was born. (2 piece cue)
it was brunswicks first brass jointed cue, and first signature cue.
rubber was scarce and rare during the war, so rubber bumpers were not put on the cues. the cue sold for $8.50.
the one piece versions stopped production in the early 70's.



i have more info.....i will dig it up.
here are some of the old cues ive had in the short past........
ENJOY.
1st cue- 2 piece, carved handle 26 1/2, ivory joint.
2nd cue- 2 piece, ebony, 26 1/2, spliced shaft, ivory joint, white BBC label.

heres a pic off of deno's site.......love this one.......

 

[runscott]

edite: Thanks Chris. I hate saying something like that on a public forum, but some of these guys who post things as "historical fact" just to make a buck, really piss me off - especially when it involves a historical subject like this that interests me, you, Chris, etc.

 

[runscott]

Also, this is the first time I've seen images of Balke-Collender cues with veneers that are definitely outside the normal colors we're used to - thanks for posting these. That bottom cue is incredible!

 

[runscott]

edited: dup post - AZ is f*ckin with me again.

 

[runscott]

in the late 30's, brunswick introduced the challenger, keenshot, tru-balance, hi-run, masterstroke, carom king, and the medalist professional.

around 1940, the willie hoppe titlist was born. (2 piece cue)
it was brunswicks first brass jointed cue, and first signature cue.
rubber was scarce and rare during the war, so rubber bumpers were not put on the cues. the cue sold for $8.50.
the one piece versions stopped production in the early 70's.

A couple of notes. Some of this is on my Brunswick History web-site...and I look forward to updating it with this other info you guys have provided, provided I can get flippin editing software that will work

Rubber bumpers were used on the cues in Spring, 1942 according to the 41-42 catalog, but not in the 1945 catalog, then back again in 1946.

The Keen Shot is ONLY shown in the 1941-42 catalog - not shown in any previous catalogs. Very rare cue with butterfly splice.
The Carom King was only produced one year. I think it was 1940, but it might have been 1939 - have to double-check with a friend who has the catalogs from that period.
Titlists were introduced in the 40/41 catalog

Ad in the 41/42 catalog says the Hoppe Pro only came with black and white fiber point, imported wood (doesn't specify ebony), black cowhide grip, ivory buttplate (not optional).

Ad in the 45 and also the 46 catalog specifies ebony wood (nothing else), ivory buttplate (again, not optional) black cowhide grip, ivory point (as opposed to fiber in 41/42).

Some of the Hoppe Pros featuring the label with the Brunswick logo used only in 41-45 have woods other than ebony, some of the ebony cues have brown leather grips, so the non-ebony cues must be from 1941-44? I have a non-ebony with the shield weight stamp, which some collectors think was only used in the first year. Reasoning is that it is somewhat rare, and found on the Keen Shot, which was only produced for one year. But there's no hard evidence to support that.

Okay, there's my 2 cents...go buy a sip of coffee.

 

[runscott]

A Few Tough labels

Here are labels for a few of the cues mentione above. All are tough except the Hi-Run. Another tough one, not included, is the "Titlist Snooker".

 

[runscott]

And here's one you won't see often:

 

[TATE]

A couple of notes. Some of this is on my Brunswick History web-site...and I look forward to updating it with this other info you guys have provided, provided I can get flippin editing software that will work

Rubber bumpers were used on the cues in Spring, 1942 according to the 41-42 catalog, but not in the 1945 catalog, then back again in 1946.

The Keen Shot is ONLY shown in the 1941-42 catalog - not shown in any previous catalogs. Very rare cue with butterfly splice.
The Carom King was only produced one year. I think it was 1940, but it might have been 1939 - have to double-check with a friend who has the catalogs from that period.
Titlists were introduced in the 40/41 catalog

Ad in the 41/42 catalog says the Hoppe Pro only came with black and white fiber point, imported wood (doesn't specify ebony), black cowhide grip, ivory buttplate (not optional).

Ad in the 45 and also the 46 catalog specifies ebony wood (nothing else), ivory buttplate (again, not optional) black cowhide grip, ivory point (as opposed to fiber in 41/42).

Some of the Hoppe Pros featuring the label with the Brunswick logo used only in 41-45 have woods other than ebony, some of the ebony cues have brown leather grips, so the non-ebony cues must be from 1941-44? I have a non-ebony with the shield weight stamp, which some collectors think was only used in the first year. Reasoning is that it is somewhat rare, and found on the Keen Shot, which was only produced for one year. But there's no hard evidence to support that.

Okay, there's my 2 cents...go buy a sip of coffee.

Here's some additional:

Below is a scan of the Spring, 1939 catalog. It shows the Carom King and it's possibly the introduction.

Also, I am pretty sure the Willie Hoppe Titlist was introduced in 1941, because the 1940/41 catalog still pictures the Carom King with the old logo and the Medalist Professional. These changed to Willie Hoppe's in 1941 I believe but I don't have that particular catalog.

Chris

Ps. Scott, when you can edit your web site, let's do it - I'll provide some quality scans.

Also, it's possible the Carom Kng was carried on for a year in 1941 with the newer decal.