Challenge of Champions dump

wayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They are very fortunate that a full investigation was not done at the time. The consequences could have been very damaging.

I was the fortunate receipient of a $10,000 first prize in Reno because of a prior dump. The money was withheld from the winner of the prior match and there was talk of possible prosecution of the 2 parties involved in the dump because it took place in a casino.

Wayne
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
More manipulation.
Nobody is getting tried here.
You were the one who put up a hypothetical question.

And you actually answered for once and I followed up you answer with a logical question.

To which I would then ask you if shooting an 800 is you threshold for determining that a player is dumping?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 

gxman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, what year was that ?
Keith was way past his prime . And he wasn't even active.

I saw Keith at Hard Times one time back in '95 or '96.
Parica set up a combo shot prop bet. First ball was near the spot and the other ball a few inches away.
Keith fired at it and split the pocket .
Keith said it was too easy he'd feel bad taking the money.

I kid you not.
Keith fkkn looked at that thing and FIRED.

I saw Max Eberly shoot a combo during a match with the 9-ball frozen on the end rail. He lined it up and shot it .

It's not even fair. These guys who started really young and have a busload of talent are animals .

Of course they miss too.

Hall vs McCready 2003 U.S open.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsHAG8YrXG8

I think the commentator said Hall was 58? (i dont have sound at work now)

Keith fires at every shot FAST.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
They are very fortunate that a full investigation was not done at the time. The consequences could have been very damaging.

I was the fortunate receipient of a $10,000 first prize in Reno because of a prior dump. The money was withheld from the winner of the prior match and there was talk of possible prosecution of the 2 parties involved in the dump because it took place in a casino.

Wayne

If it was a dump I fully agree. On the other hand I think whomever should have done an investigation wronged the entire pool world by not pursuing it.

Now 20 years later the taint is still there with no resolution. If they were guilty it would have been better to have been found guilty and punished.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 

Spimp13

O8 Specialist
Silver Member
Out of curiosity how easy would it be to get the full stats on this match to compare to other buddy matches? You would have to get a large sample size to draw a "stat conclusion" but it would be interesting to compare.
 
Last edited:

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree. The players would have to come in to the room and take the shot under the impression that SOMEONE was going to lose 50k if they missed. Just tell them two millionaires are betting on how well an amateur can hold up to the pressure.

Even at that if the shooter doesn't stand to lose anything then it's still not the same.

All I know is if two millionaires are betting $50k to see how well I do under pressure, I better be getting a helluva lot more than $25 when I make those shots.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
All I know is if two millionaires are betting $50k to see how well I do under pressure, I better be getting a helluva lot more than $25 when I make those shots.

Also a problem when trying to simulate pressure.
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
Kind of the same way lots of others on here are talking very badly about Buddy behind his back?

agreed, Roberta.
let's bring it full circle & back to kharma....

that WAS.
this IS.
NEXT?

my beef w/ Buddy, is based on our conversation, etc @ Mosconi, on behalf of the $3K AZBers who contributed, per JA's request, via BigTruck, with non-gratis, etc.

and if MY NAME were being slung through the AZB mud, as a business person (i use that term loosely), i would ABSOLUTELY make a statement, IN MY DEFENSE, or OWNERSHIP.

you either takie it to your grave - or cleanse. it's part of The 12 Steps.


.
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
Out of curiosity how easy would it be to get the full stats on this match to compare to other buddy matches? You would have to get a large sample size to draw a "stat conclusion" but it would be interesting to compare.

ATLARGE - got a few minutes? i'l give you $1.00.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Out of curiosity how easy would it be to get the full stats on this match to compare to other buddy matches? You would have to get a large sample size to draw a "stat conclusion" but it would be interesting to compare.

Well at the very least accustats has a catalog of Buddy Hall matches with stats. Now you get in to race length, table type etc...but the stats are a good starting point. Joey does have a good point. If buddy was shooting well below his average then why?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just to add a little something else to this thread for those that think a player of Buddy's skill level can't dog a shot without it being a dump. I present to you this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_plsd-1TNNw

If you don't feel like watching, it's the one we've all seen a thousand times where Corey is playing Mika in the US Open Finals, and makes a very nice draw shot on the 4 to get back to the 5.

What's not shown in the clip, and what most people don't remember is that Corey gets the same shot on the 9 (as the one on the 8 that Buddy missed), and he dogs it. I don't recall anyone ever say he was trying to dump.

Of course he was up 10-0 at the time, but the point is that even the best players miss easy shots, or make careless mistakes like scratching.
 

dabarbr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't care what anybody in this thread bets on or doesn't but if anyone thinks this shot is an unmissable hanger they are mistaken. Even on a large pocket table this shot can be missed.

ONB


View attachment 338314

View attachment 338315

In the real world, not the dump world, if Buddy had any Idea that he might miss this combo with $50,000 on the line he would have played and easy safety here by rolling the eight to the short rail and laying the cue ball right on top of the nine ball forcing Lebron to kick by going up table and back.
The cue ball is close enough to the eight ball to have complete control of that safety. That would pretty much insure the win.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The winner of that match received $60,000 and the loser received $40,000.

So another way to look at it is that the men's and women's singles events, which had first prizes of $20,000 each, actually had first prizes of $60,000 each ($20,000 plus the $40,000 guaranteed from participating in the mixed-singles match), and then the mixed-singles match was for the additional $20,000.

And just as a follow-up comment, this means that Wiley and Villarreal, as well as the losers Ortmann and A. Fisher, were actually playing their singles event finals for a $50,000 difference (the losers got $10,000) with the possibility of $20,000 more. That's really where the big money was on the line.

So, yes, CJ Wiley has played a race to 7 for $50,000 or more.
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
Why do you keep saying that? Lou and I never agree to any ban of any length.
"ägreed", being the operative word. there is no longer proof of my accusations & your denials, cause the thread was jerked. sound familiar? if you un-**** it, then it never existed....

I didn't say anything behind Wilson's back. I said what I wanted to say in a space that I feel I am allowed to say what I want to say. Wilson knows full well how I feel about him, we have had it out on here many times in public.
you said it on FB & it trickled to here.

Don't presume to lecture me and tell me that I am not allowed to go to other parts of the internet and talk about things that happen here.
this is where you & i cycle together - it's either you, or KK9....

I don't recall Jerry and Mike saying any such thing that Wilson won't ever be removed. Probably not but that doesn't mean users who are not favorites of Wilson aren't allowed to hope for it.
i do.

please take your beautiful wife out to dinner tonight,
 

Spimp13

O8 Specialist
Silver Member
ATLARGE - got a few minutes? i'l give you $1.00.

I actually think I owe you a dollar. I'll payoff if you stop by des moines for the one pocket benefit thread I created otherwise allysa and I agreed we are going to air you and not ship the cheese. Obviously there would be some variables to compare if doing a stat check. I was curious if the overall shooting was much lower stat wise vs his normal shooting or just about right where it could have been deemed a poorly played Match by him.
 

MahnaMahna

Beefcake. BEEFCAKE!!
Silver Member
Ahhahhaahahahahaaaaahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm seriously laughing my ass off catching up on the last few hours. JB vs everyone!!!! Why are we so mean, fighting with poor JB? Bastards!!!!

This place is like the cable company!

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1401231053.401413.jpg
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
In the real world, not the dump world, if Buddy had any Idea that he might miss this combo with $50,000 on the line he would have played and easy safety here by rolling the eight to the short rail and laying the cue ball right on top of the nine ball forcing Lebron to kick by going up table and back.
The cue ball is close enough to the eight ball to have complete control of that safety. That would pretty much insure the win.

That makes sense as well.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
please take your beautiful wife out to dinner tonight,

It never existed. Lou and I NEVER agreed or even discussed with each other leaving the forum as part of our match.

My wife is in China and it doesn't matter that she is, please leave her out of our conversation.

I think iirc you proposed a voluntary ban as a condition of the match and both Lou and I said that wasn't what either of us wanted.

So would you please be so kind as to drop this accusation that Lou and I agreed to a ban?
 
Top