Chess Vs. Billiards

justnum

Redhawk PI
Silver Member
Your point is useless. My cueball can't hit a OB buried within a stack.

Have you tried projectile motion equations? Check out the game angry birds its all about working in two dimensions. Chess only works in one dimension in a sequential format. Pool is 4 dimensional and using fuzzy logic that cant be spoof like chess masters.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think the question has been answered. No matter how tough pool is, we don't have to worry about assault by killer robots!

Hu

 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
To put the lie to the idea that chess has no "physical" component, i.e. "hand-eye coordination". The memorization component of chess is 100% physical. You either have the circuitry for it (like hand-eye coordination is required in pool..), or you don't. While study is "required" to build the pattern recognition, if you don't have the physical circuitry, it won't stick. Same with the ability to hold a full chess position on your head (or 50 in a simultaneous exhibition..). You either have it genetically, or you do not. This can be trained, but I read a book on chess years ago that went into detail on what the author believed are the absolute critical mental circuits needed to achieve master level play. Backed up by research that reinforced that the brains of those who go on to reach master level quickly are simply wired differently.

This is all important, because chess is about time management. If you cannot glance at the board and immediately recognize "chunks" of the position at a glance, then you have to mentally calculate a continuation, which is not how master level players play. And takes extra time that delays the actual formation of an overall plan, as tactics are king. Tactics must be calculated before a general strategic plan can be worked through. Chess masters process the entire board at a glance, and immediately recognize tactical opportunities that may extend to 7 or more moves. They see the entire sequence at a glance as a function of recognizing the initial position.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To put the lie to the idea that chess has no "physical" component, i.e. "hand-eye coordination". The memorization component of chess is 100% physical. You either have the circuitry for it (like hand-eye coordination is required in pool..), or you don't. While study is "required" to build the pattern recognition, if you don't have the physical circuitry, it won't stick. Same with the ability to hold a full chess position on your head (or 50 in a simultaneous exhibition..). You either have it genetically, or you do not. This can be trained, but I read a book on chess years ago that went into detail on what the author believed are the absolute critical mental circuits needed to achieve master level play. Backed up by research that reinforced that the brains of those who go on to reach master level quickly are simply wired differently.

This is all important, because chess is about time management. If you cannot glance at the board and immediately recognize "chunks" of the position at a glance, then you have to mentally calculate a continuation, which is not how master level players play. And takes extra time that delays the actual formation of an overall plan, as tactics are king. Tactics must be calculated before a general strategic plan can be worked through. Chess masters process the entire board at a glance, and immediately recognize tactical opportunities that may extend to 7 or more moves. They see the entire sequence at a glance as a function of recognizing the initial position.
Along that line, reality itself becomes an organic construct. Klein bottle...
 

justnum

Redhawk PI
Silver Member
Chess is like a computer printer, it does the same thing forever someone else has to move the paper for it.
Billiards is a complete system, its has much more room for everything by design of the equipment.

I will acknowledge chess has a few interesting concepts, but the same that could be found on other games like billiards.
 

justnum

Redhawk PI
Silver Member
Chess is to QR codes as billiards is to hitting targets on Mars from Earth orbit.
 

pvc lou

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
yes. i quite agree. chess is a möbius strip cut in half. billiards is more like a blade of grass.
 

justnum

Redhawk PI
Silver Member
If someone invented continuous straight chess analogous to 14.1 maybe it would be comparable to billiards.
 

VIProfessor

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
There's a part that we have been missing here. Just what is 'mental'? I submit, for your consideration, that successfully planning and executing a shot actually involves a mental calculation of angles, speed, spin and deflection on position routes that may require extreme precision and may involve multiple rails and collisions with multiple balls.

And that is such a difficult mental task that only our subconscious mind can do it.

Still, in terms of strategic difficulty, there's no contest. Chess gives pool the three and out.
 

justnum

Redhawk PI
Silver Member
There's a part that we have been missing here. Just what is 'mental'? I submit, for your consideration, that successfully planning and executing a shot actually involves a mental calculation of angles, speed, spin and deflection on position routes that may require extreme precision and may involve multiple rails and collisions with multiple balls.

And that is such a difficult mental task that only our subconscious mind can do it.

Still, in terms of strategic difficulty, there's no contest. Chess gives pool the three and out.

Chess is a tree network with clear branches to move along.

Billiards is a traveling salesperson problem. Everyone can solve the baby versions and act like know it alls. Only the best will attempt to solve the problem primitively.

Chess program can be 100 lines of code.
A mean chess solver 5 moves ahead plus 10 second wait time.

Billiards program 200 lines of code.
A mean billiard solver plays 2 moves ahead plus 0.01 ms wait time on easy shots and 30+ s on interesting shots.

Clearly from a solution perspective billiards
is computationally more intensive and requires a higher level of programming to solve interesting shots.

Based on competition play interesting shots are hangers. However in recreational play interesting shots cant even be solved by the best programmers of all time.

Billiards FTW
 

justnum

Redhawk PI
Silver Member
great minds think alike.

my favorite flavor ice cream is strawberry. what's yours?

Data mining is not allowed. I actually make my own ice cream flavors. Basic ice cream taste amazing. I have a kitchenaid ice cream maker. Slow churn is better than flash frozen. Iced cream is my favorite.

Why do they call ice cream flavored? To identify the nits.
 

pvc lou

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Data mining is not allowed. I actually make my own ice cream flavors. Basic ice cream taste amazing. I have a kitchenaid ice cream maker. Slow churn is better than flash frozen. Iced cream is my favorite.

Why do they call ice cream flavored? To identify the nits.
i am most definitely a nit.

very perceptive
 

justnum

Redhawk PI
Silver Member
i am most definitely a nit.

very perceptive

Chess solutions can be computed without writing anything down.

Generalized pool solutions can't be computed without extensive digit precision and if you wanted a speedy calculation more advanced hardware than existing today and the software to support it.
 

td873

C is for Cookie
Silver Member
@Tin Man has it right. JJ made this exact analogy a while back as well.
If the "best" engine crunched a chess position and a one pocket position and you got the absolute best move for that situation:
100% of the time the chess player will execute the move correctly
NOT 100% of the time the pool player will execute the shot correctly.

So even if the strategy was perfect in pool, you can STILL fail.

-td <- can fail with imperfect strategy as well
 

fan-tum

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Interesting, though twice as many pieces on the chessboard as (pocket) billiard balls, still, the moves chess pieces can make are likely more restricted, as they are confined to the board squares. I was never really good at chess since I couldn’t think far enough ahead (or memorize the classic moves). The unlimited outcome of a straightpool position makes thinking ahead rather dependent upon the previous shot’s outcome. EVERY shot requires the evaluation of every other previous situation, since no two exact layouts ever likely repeat exactly. So, which game is more mentally challenging in he end
In the next 1 pkt game between 2 decent players,notice how many non-crucial shots there are, shots that don't have to be hit precisely. It's cerebral but not a constant brain drain like chess.
 
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