Chezka Centeno

sciarco

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I watched her play she's a great player for a 16 year old, give her a few more years and who knows what's next.
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
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If anyone thinks a 16 year old girl or boy for that matter can beat Sky, I am sure you could win an armored car full of cash.

Wu Cha Ching won the 9 Ball World Championships on his first try when he was 16.

Pretty sure that there are NOW 16 year olds in China and in the Philippines that NO AMERICAN BACKER wants to bet a boatload of cash on Sky against them.

Skyler and Shane and Justin and Mike are all great players. But they are AMONG other great players. There are young players in the Philippines getting backed GIVING Efren weight.

Is there anyone in the United States, anyone, who wants to back any US player giving Efren weight for serious cash?

Lets flip the script....if ANY American player wants to go to the Philippines or Taiwan and match up they can win five armored trucks full of cash. Now getting that money off the island might be a problem but the money is there to back their players.

I was told straight out that Rodney Morris could get a game for $500,000 if he wanted to play heads up in the Philippines. The money is there for sure. You might not like how it was made but it is there.
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's what I have been saying for years. There is no physical reason why women can't play as well as men. The only truly logical reason why they, as a group, don't is a matter of numbers. More men play and more men compete aggressively and so more men will reach the upper tiers of skill. But there is no reason why the best of the women can't be in the same league as the best of the men.<--Aha,..but the number of women that bowl, or play tennis is almost equal, right?..Yet no women ever has, or ever will ever dominate those sports over men..Ever!

..I was told straight out that Rodney Morris could get a game for $500,000 if he wanted to play heads up in the Philippines. The money is there for sure. You might not like how it was made but it is there...

Hi John, its just me again, questioning your logic! ;)..Who 'told you' the 500K was there, (for sure)?..Why do you always insist on throwing around unrealistic numbers?..And why would you pick Morris, as being the best we have to offer?.. Is Shane now just 'chopped liver'? :confused:..Also, Efren is in the twilight of his career..lots of youngsters in many different places, can give him weight now!

Also, you have always been a strong supporter of women's pool skills, being potentially equal to that of men's...That will never be the case EVER..Sure, there will always be 'some' women, who can beat 'some' men..Why is that even relevant?..The chances of a women, dominating the sport/game of pool, are about as likely as they are in football or baseball..ZERO!..

It has nothing to do with physical strength, but it has everything to do with other intangibles ..Namely, pool room type exposure at an early age, gambling attitude, timidity, and most important..Male aggressivness and dominance in all hand-eye related endeavors!..Been that way forever, and until we crown a woman, heavyweight champion of the world..it will stay that way!..I don't think the ladies really want it any different!

PS..I hate to always be the one pointing out your personal opinions, as being obviously just that.."YOURS"! ..You will never be, the ultimate authority on all things pool related..Get over it! :rolleyes: :D
 
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arps

tirador (ng pansit)
Silver Member
Good news. Chezka's US Visa application just got approved. She will be playing in the Tornado Open in Florida, Women's 10-ball event. :thumbup:
 
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sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good news. Chezka's US Visa application just got approved. She will be playing in the Tornado Open in Florida, Women's 10-ball event. :thumbup:

Now THAT is good news. I can't wait to watch and see how she does.
 

precisepotting

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Only player that plays faster than her is Tony Drago. Super accurate and super fast player. However, sometimes abit careless with her safety. Amazing talent.
 

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good news. Chezka's US Visa application just got approved. She will be playing in the Tornado Open in Florida, Women's 10-ball event. :thumbup:
That is great to hear! Can't wait to hear her causing serious damage against the competition...men in particular.
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Good news. Chezka's US Visa application just got approved. She will be playing in the Tornado Open in Florida, Women's 10-ball event. :thumbup:

She is 16 and tournament is in casino. Johnnyt
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
She is 16 and tournament is in casino. Johnnyt

That does not matter. Minors are only forbidden to play the games not forbidden to be in the casino. Especially if the tournament is in the convention area.

Out in Vegas kids are all over the place in the casinos.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
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Hi John, its just me again, questioning your logic! ;)..Who 'told you' the 500K was there, (for sure)?..Why do you always insist on throwing around unrealistic numbers?..And why would you pick Morris, as being the best we have to offer?.. Is Shane now just 'chopped liver'? :confused:..Also, Efren is in the twilight of his career..lots of youngsters in many different places, can give him weight now!

Also, you have always been a strong supporter of women's pool skills, being potentially equal to that of men's...That will never be the case EVER..Sure, there will always be 'some' women, who can beat 'some' men..Why is that even relevant?..The chances of a women, dominating the sport/game of pool, are about as likely as they are in football or baseball..ZERO!..

It has nothing to do with physical strength, but it has everything to do with other intangibles ..Namely, pool room type exposure at an early age, gambling attitude, timidity, and most important..Male aggressivness and dominance in all hand-eye related endeavors!..Been that way forever, and until we crown a woman, heavyweight champion of the world..it will stay that way!..I don't think the ladies really want it any different!

PS..I hate to always be the one pointing out your personal opinions, as being obviously just that.."YOURS"! ..You will never be, the ultimate authority on all things pool related..Get over it! :rolleyes: :D

This was a conversation from many many years ago. And the people who made the remark that Rodney could get played for that amount were dead serious. I think that the reason Rodney was mentioned is that he had at one time said he would play anyone a 15 ahead set and had never been beaten in that format.

As for things that will never happen....you don't know what will or won't happen any more than I do. Not sure why you feel the need to point out that my opinions which I clearly state as MY opinions are mine.... when I list things intended to be more than my opinion I back them up with the source as I was taught to do long ago.

As for Efren NO YOUNGSTER that I know of in the United States has offered him weight in any game. Maybe I am not that dialed in but I have not seen any mention whatsoever of any player or any age outside the Philippines offering Efren weight. Maybe they "can" but no one is trying other then Pinoy kids.

Regarding the women and the "intangibles"...if you had bothered to read my post thoroughly before jumping on me you would have seen that I mentioned having the same treatment/environment as one factor why women don't rise to the same level. If I didn't mention it then I have mentioned it many times in the past. What other "intangibles" do you think that are present?

Crown a woman heavyweight champion? You're going to compare a physical sport like boxing to a primarily non-physical one like pool after you JUST SAID that physical strength doesn't matter in pool? Regarding dominance, no one is dominating pool in the titles won category. Wu is dominating in the games won category.

It is and remains my opinion that it IS possible that a woman can appear who in fact can dominate the games won category although it is not PROBABLE given the much lower numbers of women who play seriously. To think otherwise given the evidence is simply sexist and old-school misogynistic. In fact you have a very good example from your own era in Jean Balukas whom no one took lightly in competition. She excelled against the men despite a much much smaller pool of serious women players. But she didn't dominate them since she was a world beater among many many many world beaters. AND she still faced the sexism and unequal treatment that prevailed back then and which still exists today.

I am of the opinion that we shouldn't have women's tournaments. I think we are at the point where collectively we should say that women and men can play equally well and they should compete side by side. I fully believe that the women hold themselves back by continuing to participate in women's tournaments and they are also held back by not being allowed to participate in "men's" events.

But I understand that society is still making these divisions based on sex and even in sports where there is literally no physical barrier to performance we still allow segregation. Perhaps you're right and one of the "intangibles" that might contribute to no woman ever being "dominant" in pool over all other humans might be the fact that they still have the luxury of segregation and the ability to be the best "woman" player rather than the only option being to just play against men and women together and be recognized as simply a top player regardless of gender.

I once asked Frank Alvarez if Kelly Fisher would be allowed to play in the UPA if she agreed to not play in any women-only events.... Frank said no. So to be clear, when the men are "scared" to allow the women to play them then they will never know if the women can or cannot win against them consistently and neither will you and neither will I.

Of course I am not saying that all men are scared of allowing women to play in pro events. But women who do and win still have to endure the sexist comments and the men who lose have to endure ridicule. Allison Fisher mentioned that in an interview when she played in snooker events in England where any time she won it was because she was lucky or the male opponent played poorly. It was never that she beat the man because she simply outplayed him......

I have a feeling that if you were ever beaten by a woman it wasn't because of her superior play either.
 

JB Cases

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Also Dick, I don't know how may women bowl or play tennis. But what I do know is that in both of those sports the women don't compete against the men. Tennis is certainly more physical and the serve speed of the men is on average much faster if I remember right.

Bowling? Will never dominate? Here is a woman who won a major title and had to "earn" the right to even be allowed to compete with the men. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/kelly-kulick-woman-win-professional-bowling-tournament/story?id=9657578

https://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/...e-beaten-men?utm_term=.uwg1Pdw9gY#.flwlkz7BaW

You may say well these are just anomalies....but the fact remains that all "firsts" are considered to anomalies until they become common. Once upon a time all the world's experts were sure than no human being could run a mile in under four minutes. Now you can't even really start to be competitive in high school track unless you can run a mile in under four minutes.

Now that we have fargo ratings to more accurately measure performance maybe someday we will be able to see how well they hold up when men and women are allowed to compete equally. Mike Page did an analysis of Karen Corr's Fargo Rate for games ONLY against men vs. her Fargo Rate for games ONLY against women and the difference was one point if I remember correctly. And what recently happened? Karen took second to Jayson Shaw at the Turning Stone event proving that her Fargo Rating is accurate as she played consistent with her rating as one of the best players alive.....the balls don't know her gender.
 

GideonF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is actually interesting that Chezka is now the highest rated female, given that she was eliminated 1st round of the elimination stage in China.

How can this be?

She played three matches

7 - 2 win group stage
7 - 1 win group stage
8 - 9 loss elimination stage

overall record for the tournament 22 wins 12 loses.

But the devil is in the details

The 7-2 win was to basically unrated player Sollip Choi
The 7-1 win was to eventual tournament winner Han Yu
The 8-9 loss was to eventual tournament winner Han Yu as well

So in getting bumped out early, Chezka played 25 games against the woman who is now the second best female player in the world (rating 770, 40 points above Karen Corr), winning 15 and losing 10.



Mike.

This reminds me of a FargoRate issue I've been wondering about. It seems to me that Fargo may give undue weight to lopsided wins and undervalue close (say hill-hill) wins. Some players seem to steam-roll opponents when on a roll, whereas some champions seem to win a ton of close matches en route to a title.

Let's say Alex and Jayson started with the same Fargo rating. They enter a single elimination tournament and Jayson runs over his opponents 11-2, 11-3, 11-1 and 11-5, before losing 10-11 to Alex in the semis. Alex wins his matches 11-7, 11-8, 11-9, 11-9, then beats Jayson 11-10 and wins the finals 11-10.

If each of Alex's and Jayson's opponents had the same rating (in each round), doesn't this mean that Jayson comes out of the event with a higher rating?

Perhaps this happens several tournaments in a row - Jayson runs over opponents before losing a close match to Alex, whereas Alex wins a bunch of matches hill-hill but wins the event.

Gideon-Rating (TM) would rate Alex higher than Jayson in that circumstance, but I think Fargo does the opposite.

Is this correct? If so, do you consider it a limitation of Fargo's accuracy or not?
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Also Dick, I don't know how may women bowl or play tennis. But what I do know is that in both of those sports the women don't compete against the men. Tennis is certainly more physical and the serve speed of the men is on average much faster if I remember right.

Bowling? Will never dominate? Here is a woman who won a major title and had to "earn" the right to even be allowed to compete with the men. http://abcnews.go.com/WN/kelly-kulick-woman-win-professional-bowling-tournament/story?id=9657578

https://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/...e-beaten-men?utm_term=.uwg1Pdw9gY#.flwlkz7BaW

You may say well these are just anomalies....but the fact remains that all "firsts" are considered to anomalies until they become common. Once upon a time all the world's experts were sure than no human being could run a mile in under four minutes. Now you can't even really start to be competitive in high school track unless you can run a mile in under four minutes.

Now that we have fargo ratings to more accurately measure performance maybe someday we will be able to see how well they hold up when men and women are allowed to compete equally. Mike Page did an analysis of Karen Corr's Fargo Rate for games ONLY against men vs. her Fargo Rate for games ONLY against women and the difference was one point if I remember correctly. And what recently happened? Karen took second to Jayson Shaw at the Turning Stone event proving that her Fargo Rating is accurate as she played consistent with her rating as one of the best players alive.....the balls don't know her gender.


Slow down John, you're getting ahead of yourself. Any high schooler that can run a four minute mile will probably be the national champion! There's only been a few who have ever done it.

About Chezka, Dennis is here now and he said she is already better than Rubilen Amit, previously the Philippines greatest woman player. He said she is the near equal of the best Chinese women as well, but still has some things to learn about playing in competition. He is high on her game. She's actually 17 now. Getting old! :rolleyes:
 
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tucson9ball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mike.

This reminds me of a FargoRate issue I've been wondering about. It seems to me that Fargo may give undue weight to lopsided wins and undervalue close (say hill-hill) wins. Some players seem to steam-roll opponents when on a roll, whereas some champions seem to win a ton of close matches en route to a title.

Let's say Alex and Jayson started with the same Fargo rating. They enter a single elimination tournament and Jayson runs over his opponents 11-2, 11-3, 11-1 and 11-5, before losing 10-11 to Alex in the semis. Alex wins his matches 11-7, 11-8, 11-9, 11-9, then beats Jayson 11-10 and wins the finals 11-10.

If each of Alex's and Jayson's opponents had the same rating (in each round), doesn't this mean that Jayson comes out of the event with a higher rating?

Perhaps this happens several tournaments in a row - Jayson runs over opponents before losing a close match to Alex, whereas Alex wins a bunch of matches hill-hill but wins the event.

Gideon-Rating (TM) would rate Alex higher than Jayson in that circumstance, but I think Fargo does the opposite.

Is this correct? If so, do you consider it a limitation of Fargo's accuracy or not?


In your scenario, Jayson would have the higher rating. Fargo is based on "all" wins and losses vs. your opponents rating. It doesn't matter who wins the tournament, you are rated on all your matches.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would realy like to see study if some races mature faster than others it seems to me Asians are ahead of others at a younger age ,, baseball for instance Taiwan is always at the top or near the top yr after yr in little league World Series , also true in some Olympic sports ,, i think cause thier small in stature thier more mature physically than others at a early age ,, where others growth plate often goes on till late teens some beyond
What effect that has in pool I'm not sure but it does have a effect in other sports as I pointed out very few of the superstar Baseball players ever reach major league level


1
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
....Now that we have fargo ratings to more accurately measure performance maybe someday we will be able to see how well they hold up when men and women are allowed to compete equally. Mike Page did an analysis of Karen Corr's Fargo Rate for games ONLY against men vs. her Fargo Rate for games ONLY against women and the difference was one point if I remember correctly. And what recently happened? Karen took second to Jayson Shaw at the Turning Stone event proving that her Fargo Rating is accurate as she played consistent with her rating as one of the best players alive.....the balls don't know her gender.

John, thanks for the detailed explanation of why you think I'm full of s**t!.. Pointing out Corr's recent 2nd place at TS, (maybe her highest finish ever in a strong, predominantly male field), proves absolutely nothing!..Also, 'Fargo-Rating'.(As the preceding poster's have pointed out) is very flawed..There is no way to adjust for strength of field, or to assess a players individual draw!..Until those loopholes are closed, fargo-rating is practically meaningless!..The players themselves, have always been able to more accurately define the pecking order..For proof, just watch them match up with each other. ;)

As for my mysogonistic tendencies, you're way off!..I dearly love women, always have, always will!..However, of all the ladies I've met in my life, 99.9% of them do not feel the need to compete equally, in any male dominated endeavor!..They are very content (and comfortable) competing against other women!..You are right, when you say "the balls don't know her gender"......But by your continually insisting on feminine "equality", I must question whether you do either! :sorry: :sorry: :sorry:
 
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BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Slow down John, you're getting ahead of yourself. Any high schooler that can run a four minute mile will probably be the national champion! There's only been a few who have ever done it.

About Chezka, Dennis is here now and he said she is already better than Rubilen Amit, previously the Philippines greatest woman player. He said she is the near equal of the best Chinese women as well, but still has some things to learn about playing in competition. He is high on her game. She's actually 17 now. Getting old! :rolleyes:

Apparently in 2013 there were 1,303

I didn't bother looking for anything recent. As I imagine, 1,303 will suffice as being more than a few

Now if you're saying only a few high schoolers have run a sub-4 minute mile, then you might be right :)
 
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