Efren, Bustamante, and gambling

N

NorthCarolinian

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has anyone ever seen or heard of Efren or Bustamante losing a session of gambling? Even, of course. I havent heard of either of them losing in at least ten years, however I have heard from different sources that Buddy Hall did beat Efren in a long ahead set back in the eighties.

Do any of you have any stories or better yet has anyone on this board ever seen either of these two guys lose in an even game?

Grady or Keith? I'm sure you guys have some good stories to tell.

Also, though unlikely, has anyone ever given either of them a spot.
 
Efren used to get a spot from Ronnie Allen playing one hole.
Busta got beat by Andam playing rotation in the Philippines.
 
NorthCarolinian said:
Has anyone ever seen or heard of Efren or Bustamante losing a session of gambling? Even, of course. I havent heard of either of them losing in at least ten years, however I have heard from different sources that Buddy Hall did beat Efren in a long ahead set back in the eighties.

Do any of you have any stories or better yet has anyone on this board ever seen either of these two guys lose in an even game?

Grady or Keith? I'm sure you guys have some good stories to tell.

Also, though unlikely, has anyone ever given either of them a spot.
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I'm sure Efren and Bustamante do awfully well at their gambling sessions.Exactly how well I don't know.

What I do know is that Phillipine pool players in general are really good gamblers. I know a few players(some are friends) who are rated A and A+ (locally) who do well at gambling.They don't win all the time , however , they win the majority of the time.Gambling is in their culture, it's in their blood.They grow up gambling from a very young age.They don't get excited about a pool match unless there is something riding on it. The more the money , the better they play. They play hard and with a lot of heart.They all seem to raise their level of play when something is riding on it and don't seem nervous and handle pressure quite well.Efren and Bustamante are their role models and they seemingly have spurred their understudys on to play well.RJ
 
In an old accustats video i have , grady talks about when he was coaching deuel and he had him play efren for 100 a game even money. The first few times corey left up each time. Then efren only would play him in ring games and they were pretty much up dead even all in all. I also heard that he lost 1200 to someone during the DCC either last year or the year before, and i think it was a 16 year old kid, but the story i heard it was a short race to like 5 and the kid hit the nine on the snap twice. and sloped it in once but he still didn't miss in five games.
 
If I remembered correctly, Ronnie Alcano beat Efren playing even at rotation in the Phil sometime back. It was a race to 11
 
The facts,maa'm

Efren won't stand still for a big loss unless he and his contingent are forced to post big money. Here are the times I know of that he lost in America:
1. Ricky Byrd just beat him 3 games a couple of months ago, getting 9 to 3 and the break.
2.Buddy Hall won $10,000 from him in Houston in 84, playing a ten ahead set of even 9 ball.
3. I beat him four games, playing a game of rotation and a game of One Pocket, alternating back and forth, sometime in the late eighties.
 
Let me get this straight Efren lost to a 16 year old even up? Who is this kid that he would play efren straight up, no spot? I think this is just one of them back room stories you hear about.
 
I watched Jim Hill, the high-rolling manager of Tacony Palmyra Billiards in Philadelphia, break even with Efren one day in January of last year playing $500 a game one pocket, getting 12-4. Although I only saw them play that one day, I know that both Busta and Efren played him multiple times that month. I heard, but can't say for sure, that Jim wound up beating him getting 12-4 and that they later switched to 13-5.
 
OK Grady are you ready for another book. And I dont mean an instructional! Im up to my ears in those. I been dying waiting for Dilibertos book and the recent Hustlers Days was real dry and the Green Jungle (?) one was about a bunch of people I never heard of. Too much sissy ass stuff going on as well. Lets hear the real stories about Richie Florence, Weenie Beanie, Ronnie Allen (when he took off the likes of Phil Spector), Ed Kelly, Cole Dickson, Hippy Jimmy, Jose Parica, Richie Ambrose when he won a 100K in the 60's, Hawaiian Brian, Jack Cooney, etc. Everyone harks back to Wimpy, Fats, Crane era. But there is a wealth of stuff from the late 60's and 70's when there was a new breed coming on.
About Buddy beating Efren. If that was in Texas I heard that Efren was pissed of at his backer that was according to him a cheat. Enough said. Im waiting! PS Loved the last book!


Grady said:
Efren won't stand still for a big loss unless he and his contingent are forced to post big money. Here are the times I know of that he lost in America:
1. Ricky Byrd just beat him 3 games a couple of months ago, getting 9 to 3 and the break.
2.Buddy Hall won $10,000 from him in Houston in 84, playing a ten ahead set of even 9 ball.
3. I beat him four games, playing a game of rotation and a game of One Pocket, alternating back and forth, sometime in the late eighties.
Click to expand...
 
Book and other things

If the one gentleman was talking about my post, I said nothing about a 16 year old? I wrote one book about my life in general, with assorted stories about other pool players.I may someday do another, with better editing.
I didn't talk about Bustamonte in my earlier post. What I've seen of him he's never lost playing for money.He should have lost the time Archer ran 13 racks on him. Two aspects of that match come to mind: 1. If you beat a guy 13 games in a row and he isn't broke, you're not gambling right and 2. Do you really think that if Francisco had been betting his own money and Archer ran 13 racks on him, that he would have posted for a second set.
 
correction

King Cueball said:
Let me get this straight Efren lost to a 16 year old even up? Who is this kid that he would play efren straight up, no spot? I think this is just one of them back room stories you hear about.
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I just went and asked my friend that was there and saw it. i could have sworn he said efren but it was against alex pag. But it is a true story.
 
What does that mean 12-4 or 13-5 handicap at one pocket? Getting 4 or 5 points in advance? I'm familiar with the rules of one pocket, but have never actually tried to play it seriously...

Also, can any of you one pocket players describe what is the best way to break? Feel free to use Wei table...thanks...

Alex
 
amateur said:
What does that mean 12-4 or 13-5 handicap at one pocket? Getting 4 or 5 points in advance? I'm familiar with the rules of one pocket, but have never actually tried to play it seriously...

Also, can any of you one pocket players describe what is the best way to break? Feel free to use Wei table...thanks...

Alex
Click to expand...
12-4 one guy has to make 12 balls before the other guy makes 4, very big handicap. 13-5 is 13 balls & 5 balls, not as big (but still pretty big). The guy with the larger number is a good player and an additional ball is no big deal (8% increase)). The lesser player going from 4 to 5 balls is a 25% increase, much harder for him.
 
Grady said:
If the one gentleman was talking about my post, I said nothing about a 16 year old? I wrote one book about my life in general, with assorted stories about other pool players.I may someday do another, with better editing.
I didn't talk about Bustamonte in my earlier post. What I've seen of him he's never lost playing for money.He should have lost the time Archer ran 13 racks on him. Two aspects of that match come to mind: 1. If you beat a guy 13 games in a row and he isn't broke, you're not gambling right and 2. Do you really think that if Francisco had been betting his own money and Archer ran 13 racks on him, that he would have posted for a second set.
Click to expand...

Grady, I was hoping you can clue me in to some things here. What do me mean by if you can run 13 racks on someone and he isn't broke you are not gambling right? Please explain to me what happened and how could archer or anyone for that matter done things different.
I think if two people or even one person is an unknown then things like that are different, but at that speed and how you guys have all played each other a dozen times, does it not fall down to just who is better on that day, save something like efren v. Kucharo. And, tell us more stories until your book come out.
Thanks and respectivly,
Jordan
 
Archer-Bustamonte

They played a race to 13 and Archer ran 13 racks.Francisco didn't even get to shoot. So they played another set and Bustamonte won, in a close set.As a career gambler myself, I reiterate, if you get a guy 10 games loser or more, you should always have him broke. So you structure your wagering in such a way that that happens.
 
Busty took a beating at the hands of Scott Frost at Q-Master's at last year's US Open in one pocket. It looked like Busty was mad at his money, cause he just kept taking crazy fliers and Frost would clean up the table. IIRC, Frost was spotting him 2 balls, but I don't remember if it was 10-8 or 9-7.

-djb
 
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