Efrens understanding.

[stolz2]

Some one please give out some insight on Efren, I have not been playing for along time, but I am starting to think that the guy has some knowledge or understanding on the game of pocket billiards that most dont. Granted there is of course natural talent, but can the guy right a book or something? I would think the world of pocket billiards would be at a great loss if Efren was to pass away without writing about his knowledge of the game. Has anyone had a lesson with Efren or have a good story?

Mack

 

[Sharkeyes]

I think its starting young and having the experience of playing without fear with big money. He's the guy that will play low percentage shots in a high stress zone. Its not that others out there don't know about these shots, its that they won't have the guts to play them or are not comfortable playing them in tight situations. I've seen some amazing shots made by all sorts of A players but what sets Efren aside is that he does them all the time and makes them.

 

[bruin70]

You Cannot Explain Genius

 

[JoeyInCali]

Some one please give out some insight on Efren, I have not been playing for along time, but I am starting to think that the guy has some knowledge or understanding on the game of pocket billiards that most dont. Granted there is of course natural talent, but can the guy right a book or something? I would think the world of pocket billiards would be at a great loss if Efren was to pass away without writing about his knowledge of the game. Has anyone had a lesson with Efren or have a good story?

Mack

Friends and relatives here have been begging Efren to make a one-pocket video.
I thought it was gonna happen but has not.

 

[royuco77]

imo, i believe that efren's advantage among other players is his experience in playing almost all kinds of games and playing them well. his kicking and safety play comes from his background in 3-cushion billiards. his shotmaking, banking and table management comes from his experience in rotation. and his strategy comes from his background in 8-ball. i conclude that this is how efren's knowledge about the game ballooned to the point that he knows almost everything there is to know about pool.

 

[Tokyo-dave]

Efren is one of the few players that posess several mechanical abilities that can't be described in words but only felt by the man himself. I've seen him do stuff with the cue ball that even he can't describe how it's accomplished. He just 'knows' how to do it. Which is why I doubt that he will ever put a book out that will be of much help to the average player.
Imagine how difficult it would be to try to explain in words the process of walking to a 30 year old healthy man that has never taken a step and expect him to be able to stand up and walk naturally just based on what you've described in words. Or try to put into words the act of breathing for a person that has never taken a breath. Easily done, but can't be described in words simply enough to insure that the listener will be able to accomplish the act in question.
dave

 

[Gerry]

Efren is one of the few players that posess several mechanical abilities that can't be described in words but only felt by the man himself. I've seen him do stuff with the cue ball that even he can't describe how it's accomplished. He just 'knows' how to do it. Which is why I doubt that he will ever put a book out that will be of much help to the average player.
Imagine how difficult it would be to try to explain in words the process of walking to a 30 year old healthy man that has never taken a step and expect him to be able to stand up and walk naturally just based on what you've described in words. Or try to put into words the act of breathing for a person that has never taken a breath. Easily done, but can't be described in words simply enough to insure that the listener will be able to accomplish the act in question.
dave

Well put Dave! while learning to play I copied Efrens style best I could. I have had a conversation about Efrens playing style with players I respect, and They say, you should'nt learn that way it's too uncontrolled unless your him. Not in my estimation! because I saw him doing things with a cueball noone else could do with the "standard" stroke. After 10 or 12 years of playing that way, I'm starting to see my path was the better one for me. I can make shots alot of people don't look at, because they think it's risky or too much spinning the ball....I too wish Efren had a book I could have learned from to make it all easier, but I don't see him doing that until he's retired. Why give it all away, when He's still playing for a living. I also agree that there are just some shots you can't hit like Efren if you have the "snooker" style.....Gerry

 

[kenl]

I wish someone could sit him in front of a tv/monitor, play some of his matches and get him to narrate what he was trying to do and record everything into a dvd, translated of course. He dissects the game on a different level, you just have to watch his old matches over and over again then you'll see him lining up certain angles and you can't figure out why, but sometimes it becomes obvious later.

 

[freddy the beard]

Pact with the Devil

Efren must have signed a pact with the Devil. That's the only plausable answer to his having that kind of talent and brilliance in spite of the horrible, shaky fundamentals that he has to work with.

Here is a more probable explanation: Efren has an extended background in BALKLINE BILLIARDS. Few in the world can beat him. It is little known that the great Sang Lee could only beat Efren in Three-Cushion Billiards. In all other billiard games, 1-cushion, 2-cushion, straight-rail and balkline, Efren robbed Sang Lee playing for money. For a more detailed insight into straight-rail and balkline, get Daly's Billiard Book, by Maurice Daly. It was written 100 yrs ago, but it is still loaded with goodness.

the Beard

Bank on, brother! Old school pool.

 

[catscradle]

I wish someone could sit him in front of a tv/monitor, play some of his matches and get him to narrate what he was trying to do and record everything into a dvd, translated of course. He dissects the game on a different level, you just have to watch his old matches over and over again then you'll see him lining up certain angles and you can't figure out why, but sometimes it becomes obvious later.

Bill Incardona who knows Efren pretty well has talked about him on Accu-stats tapes. He says he's asked Efren that very kind of question. Efren just shruggs (sp?) his shoulders and says something like "I don't think" (in his broken English of course). I'm a very good computer programmer. I can't possibly describe the thought process I go through when programming, it just happens. It's a certain innate logically ability despite the fact I've never been properly trained in programming and don't really like computers. I suspect Efren's pool playing is the same, he just knows what to do. Einstein just "knew" relativity, his biggest struggle was communicating it to others. Efren just "knows" pool, maybe he truly doesn't know how he knows.

 

[Black-Balled]

Efren must have signed a pact with the Devil. That's the only plausable answer to his having that kind of talent and brilliance in spite of the horrible, shaky fundamentals that he has to work with...
the Beard

Bank on, brother! Old school pool.

The Beard has forgotten more about pool than most will ever know- I believe The Beard!

 

[Jaden]

I've posted my story of Efren many times.

I'll tell it again since this is the most relevant post.

I'm playing in shooters in Riverside with one of my non-pool playing friends, and Alex walks in. I said "hey Alex what's up?"

And who walk in behind him? Efren....

I lean over to my friend and say "Hey, do you have any idea who that guy is?"

Of course he says no. I reply "That's the best player in the world>.."

Me and Alex are the only real players in the room at the time and I don't play for money so Efren's just in there banging some balls around on the table right next to mine.

He's making shots that at the time I thought were insane to try, maybe 10% shots for me at the time and I was an A player even then. So I ask him what he's doing to be so consistent with them. He explains, with Alex translating, that he just finds his initial aim and then rotates from his bridge to put the amount of spin that he wants on the ball.

Now of course at the time I understand about squirt and throw and such, so I'm thinking to myself, there's no way that that would work for every shot and every distance and every angle. That's impossible.

So what conclusion do I make. Efren is just a pool savant and doesn't really know that much about the game. I thought that I KNEW MORE than Efren about pool. That's a mistake. Don't ever think that Efren doesn't know the game. The reason he's as good as he is because he knows more about the game than anyone. That's the reason. He may not understand the underlying mechanisms as well as some but he knows more about the game.

I think that if he were to ever collaborate with someone who does understand the underlying mechanisms and write a book, it would become the definitive book on pool.

I'm going to share a secret with you guys right now though. He probably hasn't written a book because he doesn't want to not because he can't.

There are ways to be close to 100% accurate with aiming, with kick shots, with combos and with caroms. If those are taught to the general public and not reserved for special instruction. There will become too many top players.

I'm going to write a series of books, but not before I get a chance to be on top for a while.

Here's another little tidbit. Sorry, Hal, but Johnny's aiming system is exactly what he describes. That's as much as I'm going to say.

I probably shoudln't even have said this much. Now a bunch of people are going to come back and either accuse me of lying or say how can you hold back knowledge like that? Why don't you want to give back to the pool community? Who are you to say stuff like this?

 

[Black-Balled]

I thought that I KNEW MORE than Efren about pool...

Your ignorance is showing...more later!

If those are taught to the general public and not reserved for special instruction. There will become too many top players.

See my first comment.

I'm going to write a series of books, but not before I get a chance to be on top for a while.

We'll not hold our collective breath.

Here's another little tidbit. Sorry, Hal, but Johnny's aiming system is exactly what he describes. That's as much as I'm going to say.

Nice jab- didn't see that coming...

...a bunch of people are going to come back and either accuse me of lying or say how can you hold back knowledge like that? Why don't you want to give back to the pool community? Who are you to say stuff like this?

We don't mind that you have your opinions/ thoughts and share them, however, all shall be ridiculed for typing with their butts!!

 

[Crispy Fish]

Efren just shruggs (sp?) his shoulders and says something like "I don't think" (in his broken English of course).

This is what a huge section of Pleasures of Small Motions is about. You can't be a truly great player if you have to consciously think through every aspect of your game. The more you play and practice, the more you ingrain ideas into your subconscious, so your body just "knows" what to do without your mind getting in the way and screwing things up. I would guess that Efren has played so much pool that he can rely nearly 100% on feel... very rarely will he have to make a conscious decision.

 

[Jon]

Efren must have signed a pact with the Devil. That's the only plausable answer to his having that kind of talent and brilliance in spite of the horrible, shaky fundamentals that he has to work with.

Here is a more probable explanation: Efren has an extended background in BALKLINE BILLIARDS. Few in the world can beat him. It is little known that the great Sang Lee could only beat Efren in Three-Cushion Billiards. In all other billiard games, 1-cushion, 2-cushion, straight-rail and balkline, Efren robbed Sang Lee playing for money. For a more detailed insight into straight-rail and balkline, get Daly's Billiard Book, by Maurice Daly. It was written 100 yrs ago, but it is still loaded with goodness.

the Beard

Bank on, brother! Old school pool.

Even though Efren wouldn't admit it, i have eye witness accounts of Efren at the crossroads.
It is the only logical explanation.

Jon

 

[iacas]

Golfers Lsoe the Stroke

I will add this... several times in the past (several being about three times), a golfer who has risen to the top of the golf world (or at least within the top 5) has been asked to write a book. They did, deconstructing their swing. In the end, they'd taken apart their swing so thoroughly that they couldn't put it back together.

I don't know whether Efren is a "feel" player or a "mechanical" player. Mechanical players can take apart their swing and put it back together - it's what they do and how they view the world. If Efren is a feel player, like those three golfers were, then a book may be the end of him.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I will add this... several times in the past (several being about three times), a golfer who has risen to the top of the golf world (or at least within the top 5) has been asked to write a book. They did, deconstructing their swing. In the end, they'd taken apart their swing so thoroughly that they couldn't put it back together.

I don't know whether Efren is a "feel" player or a "mechanical" player. Mechanical players can take apart their swing and put it back together - it's what they do and how they view the world. If Efren is a feel player, like those three golfers were, then a book may be the end of him.

My guess is...he is somewhere in between.

I am also guessing that him eating sleeping and breathing pool for...oh...his whole life has something to do with him being as good as he is.

His brain is wired for pool....so to speak...probably since he was a litte kid.

 

[lamar25]

Efren stories, this is what I heard.

Hey everyone,
I heard the following:

Efren, being a champion billiard player & a national hero in the Philippines was approched by someone from the U.S.
That person advised Efren there was no money in the game of billiards and suggested move to the U.S. and learn Pocket Billiards.

At this point, all Efren needs to learn is how to pocket balls.
After all, he already knows where the cue ball is going.

Efren moved to the U.S., was provided a place to live that had a pool table. Efren practiced 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for a period of 1 year. He then joined the Pro Tour.

I will accept any corrections to this post, as I'm only quoting what I heard.

"Have a nice day",
Lamar

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hey everyone,
I heard the following:

Efren, being a champion billiard player & a national hero in the Philippines was approched by someone from the U.S.
That person advised Efren there was no money in the game of billiards and suggested move to the U.S. and learn Pocket Billiards.

At this point, all Efren needs to learn is how to pocket balls.
After all, he already knows where the cue ball is going.

Efren moved to the U.S., was provided a place to live that had a pool table. Efren practiced 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for a period of 1 year. He then joined the Pro Tour.

I will accept any corrections to this post, as I'm only quoting what I heard.

"Have a nice day",
Lamar

Another BS story. There are more bs story about Efren than Kaiser Soze.
Efren was the Karambola King of the Philippines. He got so dominant they banned him. He ended spotting the champion, after he was banned, a huge spot and still beat him for the cash.
He was already a pool player at 12 years old. But, he excelled in Karambola as well. He told me his last year as a karambola player was 1979.
Here's a true story.
Alex and Efren were hanging out at Hollywood Billiards back in 96'.
The owner approached Efren and introduced a local 3-cushion player.
They agreed to race to 35 for some cash.
We go upstairs where the heated table was. I asked Efren, what billiard cue he's going to use. He pulls out his Meucci ( he was under contract with them then ) that had a tapered down shaft. IT was so whippier than a wet noodle ( ok I'm exaggerating ).
He beats the gentleman who had a nice Gina billiard cue with an elephant ear wrap.
During the match, Efren told me he could have spotted that man 50-25 easily back in 79. The last year he played competitive billiards.
Efren then goes to Hong Kong and beat Earl in the Color of Money with his tapered down Meucci.

 

[vivalaraza]

Efren is one of the few players that posess several mechanical abilities that can't be described in words but only felt by the man himself. I've seen him do stuff with the cue ball that even he can't describe how it's accomplished. He just 'knows' how to do it. Which is why I doubt that he will ever put a book out that will be of much help to the average player.
Imagine how difficult it would be to try to explain in words the process of walking to a 30 year old healthy man that has never taken a step and expect him to be able to stand up and walk naturally just based on what you've described in words. Or try to put into words the act of breathing for a person that has never taken a breath. Easily done, but can't be described in words simply enough to insure that the listener will be able to accomplish the act in question.
dave

you are right! asking efren to teach someone his skills and abilities would be like sitting down next to paganini or mozart and saying "now teach me to play and compose like you".