ESPN commentators need an interpreter

W

Williebetmore

Member, .25% Club
Silver Member
I just finished watching some ESPN WPBA action. The commentating certainly did not add any to my enjoyment. There seemed to be absolutely NO attempt to differentiate easy from good from great shots. There seemed to be NO attempt to differentiate easy from good from great positional routes. Ditto with kicks and safeties. Everything the players did was "great."

I've attempted to translate some of their idiom, as best I can tell, this is what they meant:

Commentator: "That was a great runout" Translation: That was a roadmap so easy even Wally in Cincy could have run out.

Commentator: "That was really bad luck" Translation: She missed a ball or position.

Commentator: "That was a good shot" Translation: It went in.

Commentator: "That was a great shot" Translation: It went in.

Commentator: "That was a stupendous shot" Translation: Player was lucky it went in (usually used after a fluked in 9-ball or a lucky kick-in)

Commentator: "So-and-so is a great player." Translation: She knows which end of the cue to use (rarely uses the rubber bumper).

Commentator: "This is a great venue." Translation: There are tables here.

Commentator: "The prize money is great." Translation: The winner will be able to pay for her airfare here.

Commentator: "That was the Shot of the Match" Translation: That was a shot we didn't think would go in, but it did - she must have planned it that way.

Feel free to add your own interpretations.
 
I watched a match yesterday and the crowd gave an applause after every shot. Allison had ball in hand, made a ball and the crowd started clapping. It was like she just made a 3 rail bank or something. I guess everything is great in WPBA land. :D
 
Roll-Off said:
I watched a match yesterday and the crowd gave an applause after every shot. Allison had ball in hand, made a ball and the crowd started clapping. It was like she just made a 3 rail bank or something. I guess everything is great in WPBA land. :D
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Roll-Off,
At the Peoria tournaments the past 2 years, the director has asked the fans to be excited and loud during the televised matches. As a result, they basically applaud on almost every shot - miss, make, self-snooker, scratch, make a ball on the break (even if a self-snooker occurs) - this applause does not occur during the preliminary rounds. I found this very odd indeed (as did a professional seated near me for one match). A friend (SJM) thought it was okay, since it showed enthusiasm, and as long as the applause could be considered encouraging to one of the players it was acceptable (like applause in baseball for your opponent striking out - in golf such behavior is only seen at the Ryder Cup where nationalism runs rampant).

The only exception was if a player did not make a ball on the break - total silence every time. I couldn't figure it out, so I threatened to applaud noisily the next time someone came up dry on the break (to see if the lemming-like audience would applaud with me). I soon forgot my plan, so didn't get to test it out.
 
Uuuggghhh!!!

I have to concur here...bla, bla, bla...it's like listening to the 'Grown Up' on Charlie Brown...womp, womp, womp...you know that sound?! :D
 
Williebetmore said:
Roll-Off,
At the Peoria tournaments the past 2 years, the director has asked the fans to be excited and loud during the televised matches. As a result, they basically applaud on almost every shot - miss, make, self-snooker, scratch, make a ball on the break (even if a self-snooker occurs) - this applause does not occur during the preliminary rounds. I found this very odd indeed (as did a professional seated near me for one match). A friend (SJM) thought it was okay, since it showed enthusiasm, and as long as the applause could be considered encouraging to one of the players it was acceptable (like applause in baseball for your opponent striking out - in golf such behavior is only seen at the Ryder Cup where nationalism runs rampant).

The only exception was if a player did not make a ball on the break - total silence every time. I couldn't figure it out, so I threatened to applaud noisily the next time someone came up dry on the break (to see if the lemming-like audience would applaud with me). I soon forgot my plan, so didn't get to test it out.
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It always started from the same spot in the crowd, so I figured the producers had a "shill" in the audience whose job it was to start the applause.

On one break shot, Allison's I believe, she hooked herself and some applauded, including me. SJM questioned the applause and asked if I was going to applaud when she pushed out. I said, 'no,' because I was applauding the fact that she had hooked herself. lol

I kinda liked it, as anything to get spectators into the game is good.

Jeff Livingston
 
They should ban pool from t.v. It jus keeps getting worse and worse. They put commentators who explain the game as if the people on t.v. are the only people in the world who ever held a cue.
 
Pool from being on TV as an event or even as a "filler" has never really benefited. Nobody wants to watch an event that has happened 6 months prior to airing. Williebetmore, could not be more accurate with his assessments of the commentary. Get rid of Mitch Laurance and replace him with Billy Incardona and Grady Mathews. At least the tv views will get some real commentating and some laughs in the process when these two are in the booth.

The best pool tv, I think, was the Skins games. It was the closest to gambling on tv pool has gotten with actual dollars being exchanged back in forth with some drama like poker has....Good Thread!
 
how about...

"This is a very knowledgeable audience"
meaning. They'll clap anytime someone breaths.j

I enjoy pool on TV. Mute and music do wonders for it though.
 
Guru said:
"This is a very knowledgeable audience"
meaning. They'll clap anytime someone breaths.j

I enjoy pool on TV. Mute and music do wonders for it though.
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I just hate the WPBA matches. The ESPN broadcast is a joke. The ever-clapping bunch of morons they call an audience is a joke. I've watched a couple of WPBA matches and barely managed to finish watching them. It's horrible. The bucket-sized pockets are horrible and the commentators praise their pocketing abilities.

Maybe I'll just try the mute & music thing. I think good and enjoyable pool on tv should include good commentating and a knowledgeable audience.
 
mjantti said:
I just hate the WPBA matches. The ESPN broadcast is a joke. The ever-clapping bunch of morons they call an audience is a joke. I've watched a couple of WPBA matches and barely managed to finish watching them. It's horrible. The bucket-sized pockets are horrible and the commentators praise their pocketing abilities.

Maybe I'll just try the mute & music thing. I think good and enjoyable pool on tv should include good commentating and a knowledgeable audience.
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Mikko, I can't really remember ever taking a strong stand against anything you've ever posted, and I hope you won't take this post the wrong way.

Before I reply, let's note that the men play on looser equipment than the women in this country. Trust me, I attend many women's and many men's events. On numerous occasons, Grady Matthews has used the term cavernous to describe the pockets used in American men's pro pool, and he is absolutely dead on.

FYI, there is exactly one tour in America that telecasts all of its tournaments, and they pick up the TV production costs themselves. The WPBA is the only long-term successful pool organization in America, and the only organization that has had sustainable long-term growth in recent memory, and their formula is the only pro pool formula that has consistently worked in recent times in this country.

It's your right not to tune in if you don't enjoy watching WPBA pool, but before you bash the WPBA's pro pool product, you should get down on your hands and knees and pray that the men of American pro pool do more to follow the lead of the ladies of the WPBA. Danny Harriman had posted the same point on numerous occasions.

For the WPBA to improve its TV productions demonstrably requires a larger budget. I am of the opinion that the organization does an admirable job given its finances. If you'd like to see the WPBA TV budget increase, you and others who choose to bash these productions can contribute to the WPBA organization.

I'd further suggest that WPBA audiences are the very best in American pool. Don't judge them by whether they applaud when you would, and your calling them morons is completely uncalled for. The level of enthusiasm that the fans of the WPBA bring to an event is something special.

I've been to dozens of WPBA events in my life, and the audiences have always been well-behaved, enthusiastic fans of the game. this forum. Forget about how much an audience KNOWS about pool. Audiences should be comprised of people who LOVE pool, regardless of knowledge.

I'm sorry, Mikko, but I had a pretty big problem with your blanket bashing of WPBA pool, its equipment, and its audiences. If you don't enjoy WPBA telecasts, don't watch them. It's that simple. The generalizations you made were pretty difficult to swallow for me.
 
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sjm said:
...I'm sorry, Mikko, but I had a pretty big problem with your blanket bashing of WPBA pool, its equipment, and its audiences. .....
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I felt the same way when I read that.

Mikko, for the record, I personally can not stand to watch Finnish pool when it's televised either.

Sorry, you had that coming. :p
 
Williebetmore said:
...Commentator: "That was a great runout" Translation: That was a roadmap so easy even Wally in Cincy could have run out....
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Unfortunately I am beginning to believe that such a roadmap may not exist.

Other than that your write-up was spot on.

So, which slop shots from Peoria will they choose for the "Shot of the Match"

Wally <~~ thinks the shot of the match should be a smooth bourbon
 
Homer Simpson said it best, "If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girls sports, such as hot oil wrestling, foxy boxing, and such and such"

<dripping sarcasm>
But seriously, the production of pool for TV needs some big changes. This is not just a budget issue, but a creative issue.

I've put together a concept 'For TV' game that combines 6 player ring game with Kelly Pool. (Kelly Pool means each player draws their own secret number and only the TV viewers, commentators and that player know it.

All of a sudden all the players are studying each other's slightest glances, pulling bluffs on which number they are. That's something I think that can generate audience interest.
 
I was really baffled when I heard the "very knowledgeable" audience clapping on simple straight in shots. Now I understand, EPSN psyched them into doing it. It's odd that the director would ask everyone to clap on every shot. Thinking about it, doesn't all audience in most sports clap on everything the atheletes do?
 
sjm said:
FYI, there is exactly one tour in America that telecasts all of its tournaments, and they pick up the TV production costs themselves. The WPBA is the only long-term successful pool organization in America, and the only organization that has had sustainable long-term growth in recent memory, and their formula is the only pro pool formula that has consistently worked in recent times in this country.
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If by successful you mean that they still exist and are still on TV then sure, they're successful. But the fact remains that the women still play for the same purses that they did 5-10 years ago, and that there are actually fewer tournaments today then there were back then. I don't call that successful.

sjm said:
For the WPBA to improve its TV productions demonstrably requires a larger budget. I am of the opinion that the organization does an admirable job given its finances. If you'd like to see the WPBA TV budget increase, you and others who choose to bash these productions can contribute to the WPBA organization.
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This is simply not true. Pat Fleming did a better job of televising matches 10 years ago with half the people and 1/10th of the budget. One of the reasons snooker in the UK had so much success over the years was because it was a very cheap sport to televise. 3 cameras and 2 commentators are all that's required. The simple fact is that the ESPN crew responsible for pool in the US is horrible.

sjm said:
I'd further suggest that WPBA audiences are the very best in American pool. Don't judge them by whether they applaud when you would, and your calling them morons is completely uncalled for. The level of enthusiasm that the fans of the WPBA bring to an event is something special.

I've been to dozens of WPBA events in my life, and the audiences have always been well-behaved, enthusiastic fans of the game. this forum. Forget about how much an audience KNOWS about pool. Audiences should be comprised of people who LOVE pool, regardless of knowledge.
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No question that the audiences are good - and they're very loyal. The issue is with their instructions prior to the matches where they are told to clap for every shot - very very stupid. All it does is cause the atmosphere to be phony. Something that can be learned from golf and tennis - SILENT fans are fare more dramatic than screaming ones. They may love pool, but they'd show it far better if they would just be themselves.

Also, I would maybe tend to think of them as morons for paying $40 or whatever to watch three races to 7 on a Sunday, of which the majority of the action is watching the ESPN crew running around doing sound and lighting checks. It's basically 1 1/2 hours of actual pool action and probably the biggest rip off in professional sports. If you're a fan of pool, paying for a day pass to the Saturday play is far, far better, because you get to see constant action from all the women - probably 8-9 hours worth, and you're watching real matches, instead of the phony made-for-tv crap that takes place on Sunday.

Like Marissa said, sad because it's so true.
 
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Well, I didn't really expect to get such a heated debate on this subject - I was just trying to be funny.

The WPBA announcers are extremely similar to the television golf announcers (excluding Johnny Miller). They are focused on predicting the shots instead of explaining the nuances, and they are way too generous with their praise. Did anyone hear David Feherty yesterday when Phil hit his drive into the rough (110 yards from the green), "Gee, with a shovel and a stick of dynamite I couldn't get it 50 yards; its the worst lie I've seen all week." Of course Phil hits it out within 6 feet of the flag - typical PGA announcing. I prefer the Johnny Miller/Incardona/Mathews/DiLiberto type of commentating - call a spade a spade.

I agree with SJM that the audience are NOT morons (well, except maybe for me and that drunk guy that sat next to us and gave the "quickly played" compliment to one of the players - on the shot clock :) :) ), they are just responding as requested. This is one more example, however, of trying to CHANGE the product for television purposes, instead of just trying to sell it like it is. These are the same fans that rarely clap all week long (except for the obligatory end of game, and end of match applause). I have to think that the constant applause (including a smattering of applause when the bathroom break was announced) DOES liven up the telecast a fair bit (considering the players, outside of Jeanette and Vivian, are fairly dull and restrained).

I will have to correct BGB: a different format was used this year at Peoria (similar to the Florida tournament at the end of last year) with the final 8 in the winners and losers brackets being re-drawn into a new 16 player, single elimination bracket. Therefore there were ONLY 3 MATCHES on Saturday, and ONLY 4 MATCHES on Sunday. Those of us used to spectacular Saturdays at Peoria were somewhat disappointed. I will say that the last 3 rounds on Friday were the most exciting rounds ever in Peoria - but those that expected a typical weekend were very likely disappointed if they didn't make it Friday.

Also in regards to BGB's comment on the cost of the Sunday (and Saturday too for that matter) matches, and the intelligence of the paying spectators: In past years I have avoided the Sunday matches (too little pool in too much time - I didn't care about the expense); always preferring to head home Sunday A.M. and play pool at home - I could always watch the Sunday matches at home later in the year (they're TELEVISED). This year and last I have been coerced through various means to stay for the television rounds (this year I would have left after Friday night). MUCH to my surprise, I have enjoyed the rounds immensely. There is definitely more excitement - among both players and fans. I have also been treated to the sight of Allison in dead stroke 2 years in a row; its significantly different seeing it live than on television (no edited games). I did not feel this year that the televising slowed things down significantly (maybe they are getting better at it). In any case, it would be fairly easy to convince me to stay Sundays at this point (the only thing missing this year was "the Wave" from the packed house - maybe next year). I do miss the Saturday excitement with the new format (I think they would have more fans on Saturday than Friday, but I'm no marketing expert, and Friday WAS pretty great this year).
 
I Think Mitch does an okay job but he just doesn't have the right person sitting next to him. It's not easy sitting in that chair trying to fill in dead time whenever it is required and Mitch seems to do that okay. He keeps things rolling pretty well imo. If I could make some changes, I'd have Mitch say a little more about some of the personalities of the players. Bring up more tidbits of info of the players so that the audience can identify with them more. Get a better person to do color such as Grady, Allen does a good job, or Danny Di Liberto. I think Danny and Mitch would be a very good combo. Danny would bring up some of the personal info too I think. With someone like Danny next to him, I think Mitch could concentrate more on what his real job should be, to keep the telecast rolling in the right direction.
 
One more thing, I watched the women play yesterday at California Billiards in Mountain View Ca. It was a regional tournament and there were no big name women players. Michelle Rakin and Eleanor Collado were playing for first and second. All I can say is that they played pretty damn skippy and they're not even ranked on the WPBA!! Michelle has been known to play for some jelly beans and I'm sure if some of the AZers here would like to match up with her for a few beans, she just might play you some. I'm not sure I like my chances heads up and if she's not even ranked, just how good are the ranked players?
 
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