EU Sanctions and the Mosconi Cup

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Russian athletes, competitors in any sport or competitive game, should be banned from competition.

I know these individuals have little to do with what’s happening in the Ukraine. However, keep in mind
that media coverage, i.e., all news whether sports or political, is controlled by Putin and his cohorts. The
news promotes false statements and explanations unimaginable but also boasts & brags about Russians
that successfully compete and win in all forms of competition from the Olympics to tennis and even pool.

So in order to deny the Russian gov’t, which has overwhelmingly proven it is outright evil, any opportunity
to talk about any Russian anywhere winning any competition should be stopped by using competition bans.
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This definitely sucks. I would like to see Fedor, Ruslan, Kristina, and Margaret compete. I consider myself a fan. But sadly this is exactly the intent of the decision. My disappointment and the unfairness to these athletes is how it’s meant to play out.
 

CallShotCowboy

AZB Rose Gold
Gold Member
Silver Member
This definitely sucks. I would like to see Fedor, Ruslan, Kristina, and Margaret compete. I consider myself a fan. But sadly this is exactly the intent of the decision. My disappointment and the unfairness to these athletes is how it’s meant to play out.
Yes, it is a disappointment and it is unfair for these athletes that you mentioned but was it ever considered that this ban is for their safety too?

The last thing this sport (or any sport) needs is some enraged Ukrainian or Anti-Russian militant to storm into a pool event with a semi-automatic rifle.
 

kling&allen

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
A bigger question is if any of these governing bodies and their many rules help or hurt pool. Perhaps pool would be better off not trying to make the Olympics and letting commerce (Matchroom, etc) drive the sport. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think Matchroom's recent efforts were aided in any way by the WPA.
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Grind up every cube and toss it to the winds. ;) I still hate seein' all that Stoli going to waste.

Last I checked, Stolichnaya is still made Latvia, not in Russia. Latvia is a NATO member, and also opposed to the Putin invasion of Ukraine. Sad, some people will use this Putin/Ukraine conflict as cover of their racism, and to express hatred of Russians. I can picture some proudly announcing they're dropping friends, who are Russian because.

According to this article, ignorant people maybe boycotting the Russian Tea Room. RTR is owned by 6th generation Americans, and they stand by Ukraine.
 
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ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
Yes, it is a disappointment and it is unfair for these athletes that you mentioned but was it ever considered that this ban is for their safety too?

The last thing this sport (or any sport) needs is some enraged Ukrainian or Anti-Russian militant to storm into a pool event with a semi-automatic rifle.
Ukraine and Russia have a long intertwined history. Brighton Beach, one of the largest Russian community in NYC is affectionally nicknamed Little Odessa. Odessa is a port city in the Ukraine, coveted by Putin for access to the Black Sea. I can see militants use this (really a Putin/Ukraine, not Russian/Ukraine) to spread hate and violence, such as a mass shooting in the name of Ukraine or fake hate for Russians.

Veselka, a Ukranian diner, has patrons lined up around the block. Russian Tea Room, which sided with Ukraine, and owned by 6th generation Americans, is empty probably because of ignorant people boycotting.

In other sports, I heard sport authorities are allowing Russian nationals to compete. Athletes can compete as themselves (neutral), and not representing Russia.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
A bigger question is if any of these governing bodies and their many rules help or hurt pool. Perhaps pool would be better off not trying to make the Olympics and letting commerce (Matchroom, etc) drive the sport. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think Matchroom's recent efforts were aided in any way by the WPA.
Yes, you're missing something.

The WPA, which in its current form dates back to the 1980's, was not formed to advance pool's entry into the Olympics. Yes, it's true that this became a priority about twelve years after its formation, and although those efforts failed, pool did manage to get into the World Games, which can be a stepping-stone to eventual inclusion in the Olympics, so the dream isn't dead.

While I'm sometimes a detractor when it comes to the WPA, I am one of those that understands that they still add a lot to our game.

First, the sanctioning fees collected by WPA are reinvested in world pool concerns (no, I don't know the details) and this has contributed to the globalization of the sport, especially over the past twenty years.

Second, the WPA oversees the world pool calendar. Sanctioned events don't overlap because once an event producer secures sanctioning, their event's days are blocked out on the WPA calendar. What if another event producer wishes to put on an event the same week as the US Open 9-ball (or any other WPA sanctioned Matchroom event) with good prize money? In theory, they could do it, but in practice they could not, because they can't gain WPA sanctioning. If a player that signed the WPA contract skipped the US Open 9-ball and played in an unsanctioned event instead, they will have breached their contract with the WPA and will be disciplined, and very likely suspended. Event producers know this, so they understand they'll be denied access to the top players if they try to compete with a sanctioned event by running a concurrent event. I feel that the WPA calendar still adds a lot of value in our sport.

Third, by setting prize fund minimums for events to be eligible for sanctioning, WPA motivates event producers to offer better prize funds, which in turn helps pro players earn a living.

Fourth, WPA oversees substance abuse monitoring, and that's important, too.

Contrastingly, the WPA world rankings have become almost worthless, as the list of events that award ranking points doesn't make sense anymore and because players who sat out events due to COVID saw their rankings go down the toilet.

Of course, in theory, business concerns could perform all of these same functions if they wanted or chose to, but the presence of a world governing body for pool still makes sense and adds value in our sport. If pool's business concerns performed all these functions, they'd have to police each other, and that would not happen without some complexities and tension.

Similarly, the biggest business concerns in pool could try to operate independently of the WPA. Kevin Trudeau tried to do just that with his IPT in 2006. It is not altogether inconceivable that major pool concerns could operate independently of the WPA at some point in the future, but I have to wonder if that's what they really want, and I also wonder whether it would be good for pool.

Yes, I'm one of those that still appreciates what the WPA adds for event producers, professional players, and the infrastructure of pool worldwide. The WPA is far from perfect, but they continue to play an important role in our sport.
 
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kling&allen

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Yes, you're missing something.

The WPA, which in its current form dates back to the 1980's, was not formed to advance pool's entry into the Olympics. Yes, it's true that this became a priority about twelve years after its formation, and although those efforts failed, pool did manage to get into the World Games, which can be a stepping-stone to eventual inclusion in the Olympics, so the dream isn't dead.

While I'm sometimes a detractor when it comes to the WPA, I am one of those that understands that they still add a lot to our game.

First, the sanctioning fees collected by WPA are reinvested in world pool concerns (no, I don't know the details) and this has contributed to the globalization of the sport, especially over the past twenty years.

Second, the WPA oversees the world pool calendar. Sanctioned events don't overlap because once an event producer secures sanctioning, their event's days are blocked out on the WPA calendar. What if another event producer wishes to put on an event the same week as the US Open 9-ball (or any other WPA sanctioned Matchroom event) with good prize money? In theory, they could do it, but in practice they could not, because they can't gain WPA sanctioning. If a player that signed the WPA contract skipped the US Open 9-ball and played in an unsanctioned event instead, they will have breached their contract with the WPA and will be disciplined, and very likely suspended. Event producers know this, so they understand they'll be denied access to the top players if they try to compete with a sanctioned event by running a concurrent event. I feel that WPA sanctioning still adds a lot of value in our sport.

Third, by setting prize fund minimums for events to be eligible for sanctioning, WPA motivates event producers to offer better prize funds, which in turn helps pro players earn a living.

Fourth, WPA oversees substance abuse monitoring, and that's important, too.

Contrastingly, the WPA world rankings have become almost worthless, as the list of events that award ranking points doesn't make sense anymore and because players who sat out events due to COVID saw their rankings go down the toilet.

Of course, in theory, business concerns could perform all of these same functions if they wanted or chose to, but the presence of a world governing body for pool still makes sense and adds value in our sport. If pool's business concerns performed all these functions, they'd have to police each other, and that would not happen without some complexities and tension.

Similarly, the biggest business concerns in pool could try to operate independently of the WPA. Kevin Trudeau tried to do just that with his IPT in 2006. It is not altogether inconceivable that major pool concerns could operate independently of the WPA at some point in the future, but I have to wonder if that's what they really want, and I also wonder whether it would be good for pool.

Yes, I'm one of those that still appreciates what the WPA adds for event producers, professional players, and the infrastructure of pool worldwide. The WPA is far from perfect, but they continue to play an important role in our sport.

Thanks Stu for the helpful background!
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
There is a good reason that Russian athletes are being either banned from competing or being allowed to compete as a "neutral" individual, with no country name, flag or emblem either worn or spoken during introductions. Putin validates his power with the average Russian citizen by flaunting the star athletes prowess in sports. The Russian people can relate to this and see for themselves how successful they are on the international stage. Meanwhile the Russian government tightly controls their media, so that Russians only see what they want them to see. Yes, some Russians have ways of seeing how the outside world views their country and it's leader, but for many they only digest the propaganda offered to them by the Russian media. In this case they are being told that the invasion of Ukraine is a "minor military intervention," that is necessary to protect Russian interests. In other words they are being lied too about a war being brought upon a neighboring country! Now, if they see at the same time their teams and athletes being denied entry into major sporting events like the World Cup and scheduled events like ATP and WTA tennis tournaments being canceled they begin to realize this is much more serious than what they are being told.

Couple this with all the sanctions being put in place and the freefall of their dollar/ruble and they are beginning to get the message that their fearless leader is really a tyrant of the highest order. His foreign policy is that Might Makes Right! That is why we are seeing protests against this war all over Russia and the more courageous athletes and entertainers are speaking out against it. When the Russian people protest en masse we may finally see the end of Putin's reign. In the meantime what he is up to is affecting the whole world and we are teetering on the brink of disaster! Don't treat this moment lightly. It may be the far most serious moment in modern history. The only other time I can remember anything like this is when JFK had to stare down Khrushchev when he placed nuclear missiles in silos on Cuba. We averted nuclear war that time, but this time we are dealing with Putin and he is both unpredictable and very, very dangerous. Especially if he doesn't get what he wants, which in this case is the Ukraine.

There's more to this equation but whether or not someone can play in a pool tournament is the least of my concerns right now. I wish Kristina and Fedor all the best, but they need to understand that this is not about them. They are only two of millions being affected by the decisions of one man. They may miss a tournament or two, but others are losing their lives, with millions more being forced to flee to protect their families while their sons and husbands stay home to protect their homeland. THAT is what's going on right now!
 
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ribdoner

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
Silver Member
There is a good reason that Russian athletes are being either banned from competing or being allowed to compete as a "neutral" individual, with no country name, flag or emblem either worn or spoken during introductions. Putin validates his power with the average Russian citizen by flaunting the star athletes prowess in sports. The Russian people can relate to this and see for themselves how successful they are on the international stage. Meanwhile the Russian government tightly controls their media, so that Russians only see what they want them to see. Yes, some Russians have ways of seeing how the outside world views their country and it's leader, but for many they only digest the propaganda offered to them by the Russian media. In this case they are being told that the invasion of Ukraine is a "minor military intervention," that is necessary to protect Russian interests. In other words they are being lied too about a war being brought upon a neighboring country! Now, if they see at the same time their teams and athletes being denied entry into major sporting events like the World Cup and scheduled events like ATP and WTA tennis tournaments being canceled they begin to realize this is much more serious than what they are being told.

Couple this with all the sanctions being put in place and the freefall of their dollar/rouble and they are beginning to get the message that their fearless leader is really a tyrant of the highest order. His foreign policy is that Might Makes Right! That is why we are seeing protests against this war all over Russia and the more courageous athletes and entertainers are speaking out against it. When the Russian people protest en masse we may finally see the end of Putin's reign. In the meantime what he is up to is affecting the whole world and we are teetering on the brink of disaster! Don't treat this moment lightly. It may be the far most serious moment in modern history. The only other time I can remember anything like this is when JFK had to stare down Khrushchev when he placed nuclear missiles in silos on Cuba. We averted nuclear war that time, but this time we are dealing with Putin and he is both unpredictable and very, very dangerous. Especially if he doesn't get what he wants, which in this case is the Ukraine.

There's more to this equation but whether or not someone can play in a pool tournament is the least of my concerns right now. I wish Kristina and Fedor all the best, but they need to understand that this is not about them. They are only two of millions being affected by the decisions of one man. They may miss a tournament or two, but others are losing their lives, with millions more being forced to flee to protect their families while their sons and husbands stay home to protect their homeland. THAT is what's going on right now!

Without divine intervention russia will realize short term control over the the Ukraine, however, with Ukrainian Partisans leading the way russia's short term gains will be reversed in due coarse
 

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
There is a good reason that Russian athletes are being either banned from competing or being allowed to compete as a "neutral" individual, with no country name, flag or emblem either worn or spoken during introductions. Putin validates his power with the average Russian citizen by flaunting the star athletes prowess in sports. The Russian people can relate to this and see for themselves how successful they are on the international stage. Meanwhile the Russian government tightly controls their media, so that Russians only see what they want them to see. Yes, some Russians have ways of seeing how the outside world views their country and it's leader, but for many they only digest the propaganda offered to them by the Russian media. In this case they are being told that the invasion of Ukraine is a "minor military intervention," that is necessary to protect Russian interests. In other words they are being lied too about a war being brought upon a neighboring country! Now, if they see at the same time their teams and athletes being denied entry into major sporting events like the World Cup and scheduled events like ATP and WTA tennis tournaments being canceled they begin to realize this is much more serious than what they are being told.

Couple this with all the sanctions being put in place and the freefall of their dollar/rouble and they are beginning to get the message that their fearless leader is really a tyrant of the highest order. His foreign policy is that Might Makes Right! That is why we are seeing protests against this war all over Russia and the more courageous athletes and entertainers are speaking out against it. When the Russian people protest en masse we may finally see the end of Putin's reign. In the meantime what he is up to is affecting the whole world and we are teetering on the brink of disaster! Don't treat this moment lightly. It may be the far most serious moment in modern history. The only other time I can remember anything like this is when JFK had to stare down Khrushchev when he placed nuclear missiles in silos on Cuba. We averted nuclear war that time, but this time we are dealing with Putin and he is both unpredictable and very, very dangerous. Especially if he doesn't get what he wants, which in this case is the Ukraine.

There's more to this equation but whether or not someone can play in a pool tournament is the least of my concerns right now. I wish Kristina and Fedor all the best, but they need to understand that this is not about them. They are only two of millions being affected by the decisions of one man. They may miss a tournament or two, but others are losing their lives, with millions more being forced to flee to protect their families while their sons and husbands stay home to protect their homeland. THAT is what's going on right now!
And this has absolutely NOTHING to do with individuals such as Fedor and Kristina who our American players could only hope to be as well behaved as these two(in many cases)

They have done nothing wrong and this makes me absolutely sick.

Everybody is an individual and deserves to be treated as such, people who think otherwise, well....
 

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wise beyond her years.

14D9522D-0B5A-412D-8D83-BBD7B5BEA59B.jpeg
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hope this crap gets resolved soon so that we can get fedor, ruslan and kristina back to our pool community where they belong
 

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
What about our friend S.Vaskovskyi, the pool cue maker from Kiev who posts here? I doubt at the moment he is concerned with whether a tournament is being missed.
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
And this has absolutely NOTHING to do with individuals such as Fedor and Kristina who our American players could only hope to be as well behaved as these two(in many cases)

They have done nothing wrong and this makes me absolutely sick.

Everybody is an individual and deserves to be treated as such, people who think otherwise, well....
Tell that to all of the Ukranian women who are holding their children in their arms
while sitting on a concrete floor in a Ukranian subway station or making the trek
to another country while leaving their husbands home to fight the invading Russians.
It's about time Russia got its comeuppance.
I feel for the individual athletes, in all sports, whose careers are being harmed by this
but it is about time the world stood up to this mad man killer.
Wars always have unwanted fallout.
Russia started it.
Eff Putin and roll on Ukraine.
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
A bigger question is if any of these governing bodies and their many rules help or hurt pool. Perhaps pool would be better off not trying to make the Olympics and letting commerce (Matchroom, etc) drive the sport. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think Matchroom's recent efforts were aided in any way by the WPA.
"Matchroom's recent efforts were aided"; by communist china, the current day Bolsheviks where mass murder is an acceptable means to achieve global dominance - - - even in billiards. Supporting matchroom, rasson looks like the blindness of a voluntaryist -I guess it's a new thing because if it isn't American First it just isn't working out
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And this has absolutely NOTHING to do with individuals such as Fedor and Kristina who our American players could only hope to be as well behaved as these two(in many cases)

They have done nothing wrong and this makes me absolutely sick.

Everybody is an individual and deserves to be treated as such, people who think otherwise, well....
I completely agree. It's not their fault. But being treated as individuals is not something they're used to in their country. Remember, in communism there are no individuals, or individual rights. Only what's deemed by the government to benefit society (as the government sees it) as a whole. So when it comes right down to it, they're used to this kind of crap.
 
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