Fancy Josswest
- Thread starter TommyT
- Start date
iconcue said:
Hi Iconcue,
sure, send me an email to service@eurowest-cues.de I will respond with some picture.
Markus
JimBo said:
Hi Jimbo,
I sure know that you are special about cues... What difference does it make if the scrimshaw work is made by a machine??? It takes a lot of experience to be able to programm, adjust, fit etc. a machine to make scrimshaws on inlays. To me it is as well an art form. I'd rather do everything myself on all our cues than outsource it to somebody else.
Best regards,
Markus
My opinion:
The point is to get the design that fits the cue concept -- whether by CNC or hand.
Therefore:
1) first option is to do by hand if you'e a good enough artist to do it
2) Outsource if your artistry will not do justice to the design. Why risk making the cue ugly by miscalculating the proportions, balance, shade etc.?
3) CNC if you're a good enough artist (in terms of coming up with a design) and programmer to do it
4) Outsource your CNC/hand if you are not #3
You can't please everybody but the important thing is if the scrim will enhance the cue rather than leave an impression like --- He should have outsourced it to an artist or had it done by CNC...
The point is to get the design that fits the cue concept -- whether by CNC or hand.
Therefore:
1) first option is to do by hand if you'e a good enough artist to do it
2) Outsource if your artistry will not do justice to the design. Why risk making the cue ugly by miscalculating the proportions, balance, shade etc.?
3) CNC if you're a good enough artist (in terms of coming up with a design) and programmer to do it
4) Outsource your CNC/hand if you are not #3
You can't please everybody but the important thing is if the scrim will enhance the cue rather than leave an impression like --- He should have outsourced it to an artist or had it done by CNC...
i210mfu said:
The way I understand it is that if it's done by CNC, Pantograph ,or whatever MACHINE (including powered hand engraving tools), it's is NOT Scrimshaw. If it's done by a machine it is engraving. Real Scrimshaw is done purely by hand with scribes (called Scrimming tools), the artwork is scratched (etched) into the surface. In actuality the word Scrimshaw was originally used to describe anything made by sailors in their spare time on the ship. Many of the things that they made from whale teeth, Walrus tusks, etc., had hand-etched drawings on it. Eventually the word Scrimshaw was used to describe that hand-etched artwork.
i210mfu said:
I think your last line kinda explains the way some people feel about it, except you think programming the computer is the same as doing the art by hand, I can't disagree with you more, sorry. I am sure that some may agree with you, but I could never place to two in the same way, I'm also sure that since it's me saying it you may get even more support, but you're way off on this one IMO.
Jim
GeraldG said:
The 2 are completely different techniques, Scrimshaw is not engraving, I believe in this day and age both can be done by machines although I don't know of any examples. But Scrim is not engraving and the 2 should not be confused. I gave a basic example in another thread about each process.
Jim
JimBo said:
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I just don't see computer generated art replacing classic paintings at the Louvre. My opinion is, when you add scrimshaw work to a cue it is a fine art. Such as a painter and sculptor combining there skils.
Having a computer engrave it is cool, but definately not in the same class. It lacks the character that makes scrimshaw art.
Jim
JimBo said:
Hi Jim,
the fun thing about opinions is that everybody can have a different one...
Ok, you think it is easy to programm a machine to do excactly that design you have drawn or in your mind. Well I herwith invite you if you ever make it to Germany to visit us and give it a try.
)I agree that the "real" scrimshaw work, done by hand, is an artform. Cuemaking is also an artform in my humble opinion. An artist doing sculptures out of stone (lacking the right vocabulary here) is also using tools and machines, as well as pure muscle strenght to create art out of some rock. Same counts for all cuemakers, regardless who you name, they all use machines to build a cue. No cue is fully made by hand.
My only point in this whole thread was to answer your question wether Bill did the work himself or not. Nothing more.
I sure hope we can meet someday in the future to discuss your opionions over a beer. I think this will be an interesting conversation.
Regards,
Markus
GeraldG said:
Ger, I still don't believe we are on the same page, I believe that the 2 (scrim, and Engraving) are completely different techniques. Scrim being holes and scratches filled in with ink and when rubbed the ink stays in the holes and lines depth of the work creates contrast and depth in the art. Engraving is a carved line that makes up a design or picture, but it's just a line cut in, I can't explain the way I want but the two are different and give a different look, not to be confused. I said that I believed a machine could do scrim not because I've seen it or heard of it, but with the way technology is today I don't doubt anything. I'm not trying to pick a nit, just clearify my earlier post.
Jim
i210mfu said:Hi Jim,
the fun thing about opinions is that everybody can have a different one...
Agreed.
Ok, you think it is easy to programm a machine to do excactly that design you have drawn or in your mind. Well I herwith invite you if you ever make it to Germany to visit us and give it a try.
I don't think I ever said it was easy, but it is a bought talent and the same way you learned it from Bill is the same way I could. Now art on the other hand can be taught, but never mastered unless you just "have it" IMO. many people know HOW to paint, but that doesn't make them good at it, same applies here IMO.
I agree that the "real" scrimshaw work, done by hand, is an artform. Cuemaking is also an artform in my humble opinion. An artist doing sculptures out of stone (lacking the right vocabulary here) is also using tools and machines, as well as pure muscle strenght to create art out of some rock. Same counts for all cuemakers, regardless who you name, they all use machines to build a cue. No cue is fully made by hand.
Again I think you are confusing art with building a cue, to me the 2 are not synonyms. A cuemaker isn't an artist IMO and this is why I place a premium on those who create their own designs and follow it up with their own artwork in the way of scrimshaw or hand engraving on the cue, it's all levels and there are majors jumps in the levels.
My only point in this whole thread was to answer your question wether Bill did the work himself or not. Nothing more.
I asked a specific question "if he did it by hand" or by machine, I know he would still do both since he made the cue, but to me by hand carries a ton more weight then if he programed the machine to do it.
I sure hope we can meet someday in the future to discuss your opionions over a beer. I think this will be an interesting conversation.
Regards,
Markus
I agree, but unless you come here it prolly won't happen, I don't plan to make it to Germany any time soon, I'm sure that will be my loss, it's just not on my docket any time soon.
Jim
TommyT said:
The cue is absolutely gorgeous! Thanks for sharing it! I love pink ivory and the engraving is awesome. I don't care if the scrimshaw was done by hand, computer or a flying flamingo.. just fabulous and a hellofa lota work went into it. Congratulations on a fabulous work of art (and I know that it has to hit awesome, as most all JW & Euro's do).