Focus vs. The Wondrous Mind

D

drivermaker

Banned
It seems like we have a bit of a dichotomy here between the old geezer threads that lay the blame on a decline of abilities in later years to lack of focus...and another camp of players espousing the "wondrous mind" and just letting that take over as you play in your Zen like state.

If you're focusing quite intensely, trying to maintain your focus, or trying to regain your focus...that whole process seems to be working in direct opposition to the "wondrous mind" theory.

What I want to know is, when does the "wondrous mind" turn into the "wondering" mind. IMO, I feel that focus is an absolute MUST. You don't have very much time between shots or while down ON a shot. But I also think that you can short-circuit yourself by over focusing and over analyzing.

So where and when do you apply the focus? What do you need to focus on the most even if it's for a matter of 1 or 2 seconds? I know where I'M going to do it...need I say? Where would you do it...or should you be entirely in a state of nothingness?

Look at it this way...we can only make one ball at a time. Therefore that ONE ball needs our undivided attention. If you had a shot on the 9 or 8 ball on a 50 yard line spot of the table, whatever your game of choice is, for $5,000 and if you miss the money is coming out of YOUR pocket, what would your brain be working on....something (if so, what), or nothing?
 
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DM, I know where my focus must lie and that's on pocketing the ball I'm shooting. Now, I "focus" differently than I did when I was young. In my youth, I could get to the table and stay in a world of my own from the time the match started until it was over... didn't matter how long that was. These days, I play better pool than I ever did in my life, and I can tell jokes or flirt with waitresses between shots. My "focus" starts when I'm ready to set up to shoot the ball. I can "last longer" doing this. I don't see any need to be in a left brain state the entire time a player is in a match... just too mentally draining. I "trained" myself to just drop off "in the zone" for the shotmaking only, and not for the entire game or match. Much easier on me to do that, and now I can do it on demand and get "in stroke" any time.

Vague answer, wasn't it! LOL

Later,
Bob
 
Cane said:
DM, I know where my focus must lie and that's on pocketing the ball I'm shooting. Now, I "focus" differently than I did when I was young. In my youth, I could get to the table and stay in a world of my own from the time the match started until it was over... didn't matter how long that was. These days, I play better pool than I ever did in my life, and I can tell jokes or flirt with waitresses between shots. My "focus" starts when I'm ready to set up to shoot the ball. I can "last longer" doing this. I don't see any need to be in a left brain state the entire time a player is in a match... just too mentally draining. I "trained" myself to just drop off "in the zone" for the shotmaking only, and not for the entire game or match. Much easier on me to do that, and now I can do it on demand and get "in stroke" any time.

Vague answer, wasn't it! LOL

Later,
Bob
Click to expand...


Yep...too vague. Just two questions...when you're ready to set up to shoot the ball or in the process of shooting it...what is that ONE area of focus which is MOST important to you above all the rest?

And the 2nd question which is BY FAR the most important...which pick-up line seemed to work the best on the waitresses over the years? :D :cool:
 
drivermaker said:
Yep...too vague. Just two questions...when you're ready to set up to shoot the ball or in the process of shooting it...what is that ONE area of focus which is MOST important to you above all the rest?

Well, in the space here, it's a little complicated to go into exactly where my focus lies... breifly, I have a "process" that I go through that eliminates physical aiming. Now, that being said, I shoot anywhere from 300 to 500 balls a day using Center to Edge, Pivot or Small Ball and during practice, my focus is ON THE LINE OF AIM ONLY, but when I'm actually shooting in a match or tournament, I have a routine that I go through that makes finding my aim lines "automatic". It works great and is easy to learn "Send $49.99 for the book that will tell you NOT what it is, but that it does work and, subsequently, where to go to pay your dues and join the Caneman Website and get access to information on where to find all the answers!" JK, of course. Easy process and anyone that wants it is welcome to it.

And the 2nd question which is BY FAR the most important...which pick-up line seemed to work the best on the waitresses over the years? :D :cool:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, they all work. Been married to three of those waitresses over the years and lived with a half a dozen more! I don't know that it was a "good" thing that the lines worked! :)

Later,
Bob
 
drivermaker said:
(snip)

So where and when do you apply the focus? What do you need to focus on the most even if it's for a matter of 1 or 2 seconds? I know where I'M going to do it...need I say? Where would you do it...or should you be entirely in a state of nothingness?

Look at it this way...we can only make one ball at a time. Therefore that ONE ball needs our undivided attention. If you had a shot on the 9 or 8 ball on a 50 yard line spot of the table, whatever your game of choice is, for $5,000 and if you miss the money is coming out of YOUR pocket, what would your brain be working on....something (if so, what), or nothing?
Click to expand...

I can make two balls at a time...the ob and cb... :D it happens everyday :eek:

Your designed your first question for the obvious answer, "aim." Golly.

Your second scenario, being the last shot of the game, removes a big part of a normal shot's concentration, the strategy of the layout.

So, the two biggest areas of focus might be 1) determining what shot to shoot and then 2) properly setting up for the shot (what you call aiming). One could add concentrating on the money, but that might not be the best thing for that moment.

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Your designed your first question for the obvious answer, "aim." Golly.

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


Feel free to come up with anything your wondrous mind can come up with. If you don't feel that aim is the answer...so be it. Then, what is it?
 
Cane said:
DM, I know where my focus must lie and that's on pocketing the ball I'm shooting. Now, I "focus" differently than I did when I was young. In my youth, I could get to the table and stay in a world of my own from the time the match started until it was over... didn't matter how long that was. These days, I play better pool than I ever did in my life, and I can tell jokes or flirt with waitresses between shots. My "focus" starts when I'm ready to set up to shoot the ball. I can "last longer" doing this. I don't see any need to be in a left brain state the entire time a player is in a match... just too mentally draining. I "trained" myself to just drop off "in the zone" for the shotmaking only, and not for the entire game or match. Much easier on me to do that, and now I can do it on demand and get "in stroke" any time.

Vague answer, wasn't it! LOL

Later,
Bob
Click to expand...


Here are some thoughts for consideration. And sorry for the length.

When we play our best we are in a relaxed state of being. This relaxed state allows us to remain focused, even if we are joking around. Our minds are at ease and with no effort can prioritize our thoughts, in a sense our thoughts are in control or neatly compartmentalized. In effect we can quickly divert our attention to the task at hand, what ever it may be.

The opposite is when we have mental conflicts. In other words there is stuff going on in our heads that lack prioritization as if they were random, otherwise messy. "I'm tired" could be one of those thoughts. Sometimes there are things in our heads that bother us that we are not aware of at that moment, but they are fighting there way to be recognized. Essentially we are bordering chaos at least to some degree.

I am not sure if anyone has discussed this or has done any research in it, but our minds have the ability to prioritize and compartmentalize. An example, when I am playing golf I can carry on a discussion while in the mists of a swing (I only use golf here because there is much more muscle movement). The moments before impact, all my thoughts about the conversation go on hold and get tucked away. The ball was struck well and good results followed.

The problem with pool, especially, is that you hit the ball more often with fewer breaks between shots - assuming you run balls. This is a longer period of time for an opportunity for your mind to break down and thoughts start popping in.

I always thought that there is a good way to fool the mind or to confuse it.

Example, I am shooting the nine ball, medium difficulty shot, for your $5,000. I can do an infinite number of things that can cause me mental distraction so that I miss the shot. These distractions can cause my nerves to react (you do not get nervous unless you give yourself a reason to first), they can make my vision blurry or even cause me to question lots of stuff. All very bad.

On the other hand if I can force prioritization and compartmental-ize my minds thoughts and all this confusion goes away. How can this be achieved? Well I can try to fool myself by pretending to focus on getting positioning on a next shot that does not exist. Well this is foolish because my mind will eventually figure out that no next shot really exists and eventually this will fail me. Besides people miss the eight when the nine is next. So this one just doesn't hold enough strength.

What I can do though is use my last shot, or any shot for that matter, to adjust my minds priorities. The only way that I know to force focus is to create the highest possible level of concentration, especially if not in a relaxed state. How to do this is to become more absolute and precise, or heighten accuracy. As you see the object ball to the pocket, you instead narrow it down to the absolute smallest target. In other words you are centering your thoughts on a visual where no words exists at all. You can do this because your mind is searching for the tiniest point to that back of the pocket the OB will hit upon entry. You now found it and you are stroking towards it. Because you are focused on this tiny point, your mind does not have time to do anything else because it requires so much work. Most importantly this is real and has value and your mind will have no reason to question it. (This is why the best aiming system is one that sees the ball to the pocket, because if it does not, the mind may question the fact that part of the shot is missing.)

Other thoughts I have;

My mind gets tired and thoughts pop in, what I think works well is that it is OK to stand up and to not just jump on the next shot. There is no risk in falling out of the zone or losing a seemingly perfect stroke. Sometimes this break may need to be more often. Next if thoughts pop into your mind get in the habit of saying very quickly and with authority, "Not Now". Then get on with your work.

I think that we sometimes have unrealistic expectations of ourselves and force ourselves to keep shooting even though we need a break. Expectations are false, they do not exist and are not reality. Expectations generate emotions that are disruptive to our best performance capabilities. As we get older, maybe we need to take more breaks and not allow ourselves to work as hard. (Talking about unrealistic expectaions here.)

Again, these are only some things I thought about and maybe some expert can elaborate more on this.
 
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drivermaker said:
Feel free to come up with anything your wondrous mind can come up with. If you don't feel that aim is the answer...so be it. Then, what is it?
Click to expand...

Hey, everybody, DM says I have a wonderous mind! Ha ha! :confused:

I never said that I feel (ahem) that aim isn't the answer...it is one of the answers.

There are several areas of concentration in a shot...

The first is to integrate one's motivation into this shot, or else why shoot the damn thing in the first place? This creates a general focus on the entire shot. Your example of a $5,000 bet is a good example of a motivating "why."

The second area is focusing on shot selection, vis-a-vis creating the outcome for your motivation to be satisfied.

The third is focusing on aiming, that is, still standing up and mentally figuring out how to specifically shoot this exact shot, exactly as necessary, as per your shot selection.

The fourth area to concentrate on is on setting up to shoot the shot, which includes most aiming technique(s), as you're positioning your cuestick, body, head, etc. exactly as planned.

The fifth, shooting the shot, can require concentration if you're working on a particular, for example, "staying down." But competitive, deadstroke shooting seems to not need much of a concentration/focus thought here. When practicing, yeah, but not so much when in stroke, imho.

The sixth part of the shot, the finish, requires concentration to analyze what happened and why. In fact, this is the only part of the shot that is ALWAYS conscious, so even getting yourself to be conscious here can require some concentration.

I've told too much, :eek:

Jeff Livingston
 
So DM, is it not good to think about the 10 lb. steak I got waiting at home for me when I'm down on the 9 ball for the cheese? :confused: I knew I wasn't focusing on the right thing. (Mental Note; The steak will be there, the steak will be there, just make the ball and get home) :D
 
chefjeff said:
Hey, everybody, DM says I have a wonderous mind! Ha ha! :confused:

I never said that I feel (ahem) that aim isn't the answer...it is one of the answers.

There are several areas of concentration in a shot...

The first is to integrate one's motivation into this shot, or else why shoot the damn thing in the first place? This creates a general focus on the entire shot. Your example of a $5,000 bet is a good example of a motivating "why."

The second area is focusing on shot selection, vis-a-vis creating the outcome for your motivation to be satisfied.

The third is focusing on aiming, that is, still standing up and mentally figuring out how to specifically shoot this exact shot, exactly as necessary, as per your shot selection.

The fourth area to concentrate on is on setting up to shoot the shot, which includes most aiming technique(s), as you're positioning your cuestick, body, head, etc. exactly as planned.

The fifth, shooting the shot, can require concentration if you're working on a particular, for example, "staying down." But competitive, deadstroke shooting seems to not need much of a concentration/focus thought here. When practicing, yeah, but not so much when in stroke, imho.

The sixth part of the shot, the finish, requires concentration to analyze what happened and why. In fact, this is the only part of the shot that is ALWAYS conscious, so even getting yourself to be conscious here can require some concentration.

I've told too much, :eek:

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


Well...let's just say that it isn't very Zen like with the wondrous mind doing all the work through trust or feel.
 
Rude Dog said:
So DM, is it not good to think about the 10 lb. steak I got waiting at home for me when I'm down on the 9 ball for the cheese? :confused: I knew I wasn't focusing on the right thing.
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Hell, I don't know...maybe it is. Although I think you have a larger appetite and greater capacity than I do. :p :D I should probably think half that amount. :confused:
 
Do you guys think that with all these discussions about aim, focus, etc. that you sometimes overcomplicate the game? I know they are important and I'm not trying to be a smartass or anything but I think sometimes just simply playing the game and not overanalyzing every facet of it might help some. JMO.
 
Opie said:
Do you guys think that with all these discussions about aim, focus, etc. that you sometimes overcomplicate the game? (snip). JMO.
Click to expand...

No.

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
The first is to integrate one's motivation into this shot...

vis-a-vis creating the outcome for your motivation to be satisfied...

I've told too much, :eek:
Click to expand...

rofl oh man are you for real?
 
chefjeff said:
The first is to integrate one's motivation into this shot, or else why shoot the damn thing in the first place? This creates a general focus on the entire shot. Your example of a $5,000 bet is a good example of a motivating "why."

The second area is focusing on shot selection, vis-a-vis creating the outcome for your motivation to be satisfied.

The third is focusing on aiming, that is, still standing up and mentally figuring out how to specifically shoot this exact shot, exactly as necessary, as per your shot selection.

The fourth area to concentrate on is on setting up to shoot the shot, which includes most aiming technique(s), as you're positioning your cuestick, body, head, etc. exactly as planned.

The fifth, shooting the shot, can require concentration if you're working on a particular, for example, "staying down." But competitive, deadstroke shooting seems to not need much of a concentration/focus thought here. When practicing, yeah, but not so much when in stroke, imho.

The sixth part of the shot, the finish, requires concentration to analyze what happened and why. In fact, this is the only part of the shot that is ALWAYS conscious, so even getting yourself to be conscious here can require some concentration.


Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

No wonder it took Basavich 3 minutes to shoot a straight in 9-ball.
 
If so ...

I think that all these aiming threads and thinking threads
are nothing more than the age old argument of

natural vs. logic players
(artist vs. engineer players)
I have always heard that even if a player is a natural
player, as he becomes older that he goes more towards
being more of a logic player.

I have a natural state for shooting I call my light zone
state in which I focus without much thinking at all except
for thinking about table layout. Most of the shooting is
second nature, and a thought only passes through my head
IF there is an exception to the shot, like having to spin the
cue ball more than normal, or having to finesse the cue ball
between 2 balls, or how I have to hit a breakout. My heavy
zone state is the same except more focused, comes easier,
and everything I do seems right on.

But, I have another state too, and this one usually arises
when I am under a great deal of pressure. It is a highly
consciously thinking state where I consider all my options
on every shot, and consider everything I can think of that
might go wrong. I have countless thoughts running through
my head, BUT I have played some of my VERY BEST Pool
under these conditions. For example, hill to hill on a $1,000
set to 11, and deciding to kick in the 9 instead of going for
a bank (with the 9 frozen to the foot rail) - I kicked it perfect.
Being down 10-1 in a $400 set, and coming back to go
hill-to-hill, and only lost because cue ball did a funny roll on
the 6 ball. Being down 6-1 against a friend of mine in a big
tournament and better player than me, and coming back to
beat him 7-6. Being down $1500 in a 3 man ring game for
$50 a man per game, and coming back and running 11 racks
of 9 ball in a row, and eventually getting even.

All these were 'not normal' conditions, times when I had to get
my 'mo-jo' going, time when I was consciously thinking all the
time about everything. I have been told by more than 1 player
that I have one of the toughest mental games they ever played
against, I just like to think that I have some heart, and I do not
like to lose.

The point is, if consciously thinking things gets in the way
of playing and aiming, why have I played my very best when
I have been in that type of state. To me, it seems to blow
holes in most of your theories. Now, I know, it has been
stated that a person does about 30% better when they
consciously think about what they are doing as opposed
to just getting up there to do it without thinking. What
do you think about that?
 
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