FSR -The Elephant in the Room

DaWizard

Well-known member
2nd tier.... ? Put the drugs down please.
FSR created his own tier, is what I mean. Obviously Filler is elite, but somehow FSR grabs all the prizes. I can't even tell what his edge is exactly, but he has an edge on all the others.

Edit: ok a bit preliminary. The post by Mikepage is telling.
 
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sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
FSR created his own tier, is what I mean. Obviously Filler is elite, but somehow FSR grabs all the prizes. I can't even tell what his edge is exactly, but he has an edge on all the others.

Edit: ok a bit preliminary. The post by Mikepage is telling.
It shows character that you've backed down a bit here. The truth is that FSR has wowed you and he has wowed all of us. We're lucky to get to watch him in his prime.
 

Cue Alchemist

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wu Chia Ching at the time was from Taiwan. He now represents China. He changed the “spelling” of his name to Wu Jiaqing when he moved to China.
That was 2005. He had run the last 5 racks to win it. Made the last 9 with the bridge. At the time he was being talked about. I think he even played the year before too.
He had a monster break.he held his nerve, under extreme pressure. I don't think we will see that again.
 

Tadaimarlon

Well-known member
That's $135K though April, so on pace for $400k. I think most of the people in Amazon warehouses are closer to $40K.
It's cool if he ends up making $400k this year (should be much more in my opinion). The problem isn't what the very top players make, it's what the rests of the players make.

In pretty much every other mainstream sport you're rich whether you win or you lose, you don't need to win all the matches/tournaments to be rich.

In F1, the guy coming in last is also rich. In "soccer" (football) you're rich even if your team ends up last in the league.

I knew a guy playing in the 2nd division (2. Bundesliga) in Germany making around 15,000€/month and that was guaranteed money, he didn't even need to score a goal.

Now in pool if you don't win all the big tournaments you don't earn any money, even if you come close to winning some tournaments..
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
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tomatoshooter

Well-known member
It's cool if he ends up making $400k this year (should be much more in my opinion). The problem isn't what the very top players make, it's what the rests of the players make.

In pretty much every other mainstream sport you're rich whether you win or you lose, you don't need to win all the matches/tournaments to be rich.

In F1, the guy coming in last is also rich. In "soccer" (football) you're rich even if your team ends up last in the league.

I knew a guy playing in the 2nd division (2. Bundesliga) in Germany making around 15,000€/month and that was guaranteed money, he didn't even need to score a goal.

Now in pool if you don't win all the big tournaments you don't earn any money, even if you come close to winning some tournaments..
Yes, the top guys are doing well, but the drop off is brutal. Roland Garcia is #14 with $31,600, on pace for about $90,000/ year. I'd be surprised if travel expenses are less than $30,000, although I really don't know. That leaves $60,000, which is a decent income, until you consider the lack of stability and longevity. I don't know how much the lower ranked players get from sponsors, exhibitions, and money games. It's worth noting that most of the professional are under contract to teams to play for a full season, not the show up and pay an entry fee system that currently exists in pool. I'm not sure how pro tennis, golf, and bowling work, but those may be more useful models. I'd like to see a pro tour that the players qualify for, and then they get free entry and help with travel expenses. Perhaps have 52 pros and a dozen slots that amateurs could qualify for in a pre tournament.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
In pretty much every other mainstream sport you're rich whether you win or you lose, you don't need to win all the matches/tournaments to be rich.
LOL. Pool is not a mainstream sport. I'd guess that 95% of all competitive sports are not mainstream.

In fringe sports like pool, only the top dozen or so make a really good living, and each of these sports are in the same boat. They need to grow in order to make a good living available to more players. Pool is growing, but it will be a while before the world's 25th best player makes a really good living.

Matchroom has delivered pool from the ashes and has big dreams and big plans for pool, and if the players support them in their mission, the sun may shine brightly on pool soon.

For now, though, those who consider pool as a profession must make an informed decision with a full understanding of the challenging business model that pro plyers face.
 

JustPlay

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everyone of these players mentioned has had or having a stellar year or previous years (2018- current). They are the top in the world right now. It's great viewing. Being consistent is the key to winning pool. 2023 is just in its 5th month seven more to go to see who has racked up'd the wins.
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
In fringe sports like pool, only the top dozen or so make a really good living, and each of these sports are in the same boat. They need to grow in order to make a good living available to more players. Pool is growing, but it will be a while before the world's 25th best player makes a really good living.
I'm sure the picture is a lot better if we include income besides tournament winnings, but when only a couple of dozen players are able to reasonably support themselves, it's a pretty bleak picture. Right now, there are more professional lottery winners. Heck, even chess (CHESS!?!) players have a better professional outlook.
 

Tadaimarlon

Well-known member
Yes, the top guys are doing well, but the drop off is brutal. Roland Garcia is #14 with $31,600, on pace for about $90,000/ year. I'd be surprised if travel expenses are less than $30,000, although I really don't know. That leaves $60,000, which is a decent income, until you consider the lack of stability and longevity. I don't know how much the lower ranked players get from sponsors, exhibitions, and money games. It's worth noting that most of the professional are under contract to teams to play for a full season, not the show up and pay an entry fee system that currently exists in pool. I'm not sure how pro tennis, golf, and bowling work, but those may be more useful models. I'd like to see a pro tour that the players qualify for, and then they get free entry and help with travel expenses. Perhaps have 52 pros and a dozen slots that amateurs could qualify for in a pre tournament.
They also have to travel constantly just to make peanuts. I'm sure that can be fun for a while when you're young but it gets old after a while, you need to be away from family and friends all the time and don't even get a decent income for doing that.


LOL. Pool is not a mainstream sport. I'd guess that 95% of all competitive sports are not mainstream.

I know, I just wanted to use mainstream sports as an example. I wrote "in most other sports" at first but then realized that there are sports that make even less than pool.
 

Dave714

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Where is Gomez at for the year. He is winning just about everything in the Houston and Louisiana area.
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
how can zheng have a rating at all? isn't there a two year limit
There is no two-year limit or anything for having a rating. What you may be thinking of is the modest recency requirement we have for being on the top-player lists. That is 150 games in the last two years.

As an example Ko Pin Yi and Aloysius Yapp are numbers 12 and 13 on the world top 100 list. Both at rated 821. Anton Raga is also rated 821, but he is not on the top-player list.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is no two-year limit or anything for having a rating. What you may be thinking of is the modest recency requirement we have for being on the top-player lists. That is 150 games in the last two years.

As an example Ko Pin Yi and Aloysius Yapp are numbers 12 and 13 on the world top 100 list. Both at rated 821. Anton Raga is also rated 821, but he is not on the top-player list.

i was thinking about raga's absence, he's not on the top 100 currently. only thing he's played lately is DCC i suppose
 

overlord

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LOL. Pool is not a mainstream sport. I'd guess that 95% of all competitive sports are not mainstream.

In fringe sports like pool, only the top dozen or so make a really good living, and each of these sports are in the same boat. They need to grow in order to make a good living available to more players. Pool is growing, but it will be a while before the world's 25th best player makes a really good living.

Matchroom has delivered pool from the ashes and has big dreams and big plans for pool, and if the players support them in their mission, the sun may shine brightly on pool soon.

For now, though, those who consider pool as a profession must make an informed decision with a full understanding of the challenging business model that pro plyers face.
Pro pool is doing well but the reality is, that pool rooms are in trouble in many urban locations in the US.

In LA we are down to just a few rooms. The demographic is aging.

The focus should be how to get young folks into the game.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Pro pool is doing well but the reality is, that pool rooms are in trouble in many urban locations in the US.

In LA we are down to just a few rooms. The demographic is aging.

The focus should be how to get young folks into the game.
Amen to that brother and part of the challenge is to make the poolroom a better place for the young folks.
 

book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Amazing and unique to pool players is many top tier and hall of fame pros are first generation billiard stars.

Its not like other sports or entertainment industries where once a family establishes itself they hold key roles or positions.

The emergence of the next great pool player of the era is unpredictable. FSR is a great candidate. Due to other conditions the global pool contingent has not competed as a whole for awhile.

Will the frequency of events create a better battle for the top spot?
If you go back to when billiards first became super popular ,first in France and England then in the United States Australia Canada Germany. There were many instances of fathers passing their knowledge along to their sons, or uncles to nephews. Some of the most famous were John Roberts Sr. and Jr and Charles Roberts, Jake Scaeffer Sr and Jr. Michael Phelan was Dudley Kavanaughs father in law and I can't remember who it was but one of his nephews was a champion, perhaps Maurice Daly . The Lindrums from Australia , The Dion Brothers from Canada . This lasted from about 1850 to the 1930s,
In my opinion, when billiards was lucrative , many family dynasties were formed and when it became less fruitful than going and getting a regular job, the players stopped steering their sons into it. There have been some in recent years , but not anywhere near what it once was.
 
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justnum

Billiards Improvement Research Projects Associate
Silver Member
If you go back to when billiards first became super popular ,first in France and England then in the United States Australia Canada Germany. There were many instances of fathers passing their knowledge along to their sons, or uncles to nephews. Some of the most famous were John Roberts Sr. and Jr and Charles Roberts, Jake Scaeffer Sr and Jr. Michael Phelan was Dudley Kavanaughs father in law and I can't remember who it was but one of his nephews was a champion, perhaps Maurice Daly . The Lindrums from Australia , The Dion Brothers from Canada . This lasted from about 1850 to the 1930s,
In my opinion, when billiards was lucrative , many family dynasties were formed and when it became less fruitful than going and getting a regular job, the players stopped steering their sons into it. There have been some in recent years , but not anywhere near what it once was.

This is a clear sign of progression and general adoption of the global community. It might not pay as much as it did, but it does provide substantial income and travel opportunities for people. The social mobility billiards provides is valued.

Also worth noting is the huge increase of players representing many nations.

You see lower pay wages, I see global acceptance, global adoption and more high prize tournaments on the schedule.

It is worth arguing that to be successful in billiards today you need more talent, culture and experience than ever before.
 
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