Has the Parade Passed By

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Look around. Today's player, IN ALL SPORTS/GAMES, is better. Training, equipment, video feedback, diet, etc all have led to what we see today. I never thought i'd see pro golfers ROUTINELY hit tee-balls that CARRY 350yds but they now do it. These top players from Europe start getting top instruction and tough competition at a very early age. And its ALL on 9ft tables. American players in general are so far behind it makes me wonder if US pool will ever catch up. BTW, i fully believe that the greats would have been great in any era. They would have had access to whatever equip. was used at that time. Earl, Buddy, Sigel, Wimpy, Efren, Willie, etc. would all have been monsters in any era.
 

fjk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Look around. Today's player, IN ALL SPORTS/GAMES, is better. Training, equipment, video feedback, diet, etc all have led to what we see today. I never thought i'd see pro golfers ROUTINELY hit tee-balls that CARRY 350yds but they now do it. These top players from Europe start getting top instruction and tough competition at a very early age. And its ALL on 9ft tables. American players in general are so far behind it makes me wonder if US pool will ever catch up. BTW, i fully believe that the greats would have been great in any era. They would have had access to whatever equip. was used at that time. Earl, Buddy, Sigel, Wimpy, Efren, Willie, etc. would all have been monsters in any era.
Same thing with Tennis. I think today's women could compete with the top men from the 60s and 70s. It's a entirely different game now.
 

Grimper

Active member
Look after your back, everyone. Eyesight can be helped with surgery, glasses, etc. Focus can be helped with a little mindfulness practice, meditation, etc. I regularly have to stop playing for a week or more when my back is bad, and the solutions are often complex, varied, and not permanent.

Amen to that. I just got back into pool about 6 months ago after not really playing for 20 years. I have never had back problems in my life, but after playing for an hour or two non-stop, my back hurts for hours. I'm sure it's because I get down so low on my shot, but that's how I've always done it....so now I'm just praying that it doesn't get worse!
 

Grimper

Active member
Same thing with Tennis. I think today's women could compete with the top men from the 60s and 70s. It's a entirely different game now.
I agree with the sentiment, but this is just not so. As John McEnroe said last year, Serena Williams couldn't beat a #400 man on the courts...
 

DDiabolico

DDiabolico
Look around. Today's player, IN ALL SPORTS/GAMES, is better. Training, equipment, video feedback, diet, etc all have led to what we see today. I never thought i'd see pro golfers ROUTINELY hit tee-balls that CARRY 350yds but they now do it. These top players from Europe start getting top instruction and tough competition at a very early age. And its ALL on 9ft tables. American players in general are so far behind it makes me wonder if US pool will ever catch up. BTW, i fully believe that the greats would have been great in any era. They would have had access to whatever equip. was used at that time. Earl, Buddy, Sigel, Wimpy, Efren, Willie, etc. would all have been monsters in any era.

It's true that in Europe, young players have tough competion early on, but not in every country. It's about inclusion. Here in Austria, we have a lot of pool clubs and a few really good pool halls that also house clubs. There's pretty much only one thing, that all clubs want and it's young players. It's satisfying to see young players improve and evolve into competition for the older, more seasoned players. From early on, every kid may compete in any tournament or league they like. There's no age restriction or anything and on club level, we have an inviting atmosphere. And then, we even have a national organization which cares about young talents. Where do you think Albin, Max, Mario or Jasmin come from?
 

BlueRaider

Registered
Look around. Today's player, IN ALL SPORTS/GAMES, is better. Training, equipment, video feedback, diet, etc all have led to what we see today. I never thought i'd see pro golfers ROUTINELY hit tee-balls that CARRY 350yds but they now do it. These top players from Europe start getting top instruction and tough competition at a very early age. And its ALL on 9ft tables. American players in general are so far behind it makes me wonder if US pool will ever catch up. BTW, i fully believe that the greats would have been great in any era. They would have had access to whatever equip. was used at that time. Earl, Buddy, Sigel, Wimpy, Efren, Willie, etc. would all have been monsters in any era.
The internet has been the gamechanger (no pun intended) for competitive endeavors. It's easier than ever to get the info and knowledge you need to succeed. Then it's a matter of practicing and competing. For pool in particular, there's no excuse for grinding away for years with poor mechanics and holes in your understanding of ball physics. All of that can be gleaned in a matter of months for the dedicated newcomers.

I used to be into competitive PC gaming about 20 years ago. I dropped out of the hobby from 2005-2016 or so, and when I came back, I was shocked to see how optimized everything had become. Information spreads so quickly via the internet and every tiny advantage is picked up on and incorporated immediately.
 

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
Greatest stories hanging around in a pool hall are only surpassed by those heard hanging
around in a truck stop.
And Bait and Tackle shops, this is a true story.
I once fought a sunnie for 6 hours. As I was lifting her out of the water a Seagull grabbed her and flew off.
Suddenly, out of nowhere, an Osprey swoops in and steals the sunnie from the Seagull, it was amazing, unbelievable I tell you.
Now you're not going to believe this. An Eagle, the size of a car, hits the Osprey at 100 MPH.
The sunnie falls out of the sky and lands in my white bucket.
 
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BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Today's top players are straighter shooters for sure but...

We are now comparing International fields versus primarily US fields of the past. Russ sort of points out what a more localized pool world looks like, and that's no slight to Germany as they have a lot of great players.

One benefit of a healthier professional scene, would be -- the world's best players wouldn't have to travel the world to compete for a 10-20 thousand dollar first prize. Then maybe there would be more opportunities for US players to rise through the ranks. What are they really to do now? How long can someone like Tyler Styer stick with pool, when he has to compete with +800 rated players just to win a paycheck large enough to feed himself? Don't get me wrong, I love seeing the world's greatest players stateside, it's just there's not much left for the up and comers. The smart ones end up sticking in the amateur ranks and give up their big dreams.
 
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fjk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree with the sentiment, but this is just not so. As John McEnroe said last year, Serena Williams couldn't beat a #400 man on the courts...
McEnroe was comparing Serena to today's men. Not the men that played in the 60s and 70s. I'm tellen' ya, if Serena played (with her modern racket) on the men's tour in the 60's, she would be ranked #1.
 
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BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On the plus side, today's shortstops can have different goals. I would be very proud to see my FargoRating climb above a certain level. That's something a player can hang their hat on. That wasn't the case even 10 years ago. You could always tell tales of being able to run with the big dogs, but if you didn't win nobody really believed you. Now you don't have to win tourneys to prove that you're a good or even great player. That's certainly a plus for us amateurs.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree with the sentiment, but this is just not so. As John McEnroe said last year, Serena Williams couldn't beat a #400 man on the courts...
He was just making conversation. She hits it pretty hard as far as women's tennis goes but the #400 male player would SMOKE her. Probably wouldn't be close. Men's serves AND ground-strokes are hit WAY harder than what she can come with.
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
McEnroe was comparing Serena to today's men. Not the men that played in the 60s and 70s. I'm tellen' ya, if Serena played (with her modern racket) on the men's tour in the 60's, she would be ranked #1.
She wouldn't have beaten Laver in his prime. With any racket.
 
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Quesports

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can certainly empathize with a lot of the member comments in this thread. I am 69 1/2 (LOL) and am, like most, not playing quite as well as in the past. Mostly due to benign essential tremors which is affecting my hands. Which affects my pool game to some degree. Nonetheless I know I am lucky as many folks that get tremors have a much worse case than I do. My neurologist told me that some people get them and they just flat line and some get them and it accelerates quickly and they truly struggle. I am in the former group and consider myself very lucky. Tremors took out Mike Coltrain and Stevie Moore completely, Mike Davis is like me and is fortunate to still compete at a very high level.

At this point for me personally I love pool and competing so I continue on and enjoy the moments when it all comes together and the balls seem to find the hole with every shot. Then there are times when it gets very frustrating and they don't. So it is life and I truly enjoy the moments when I beat guys way younger than myself and get satisfaction from that.

Life... No One is getting out alive. Enjoy it while you can!!!!
 

Johnny Rosato

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And Bait and Tackle shops, this is a true story.
I once fought a sunnie for 6 hours. As I was lifting her out of the water a Seagull grabbed her and flew off.
Suddenly, out of nowhere, an Osprey swoops in and steals the sunnie from the Seagull, it was amazing, unbelievable I tell you.
Now you're not going to believe this. An Eagle, the size of a car, hits the Osprey at 100 MPH.
The sunnie falls out of the sky and lands in my white bucket.
That's so hard to believe it has to be true!
 

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
I find it interesting, the players who are now 35-50 years old ,with FR ratings say 700-750 and made a career of playing pool, no other income. How the heck do they live?
They have been playing their entire life and barely win local tourneys, if at all.
In a large event it's a rare occasion they have a decent finish, they never win anything.
And never in a stacked field with players from around the world.

One or two of them travel overseas for world championship and big events. They are in over their heads and are out in the first round, second round if they got lucky.
I'm amazed at some players determination. I understand the love and passion for a game.
How long can you sleep on someones couch and wear the same clothes for 25-30 years?
Teaching lessons to kids and winning a handicap league is lunch money.

Over the last few years players like Woodward, Thorpe, Gorst, Filler, Shaw, too many to mention, and young players from around the world finishing high in events are blowing by these mid tier players, whipping their butt day in and day out.
When following your dreams becomes a nightmare, hopefully you wake up in time.

The Parade has passed by and took the floats with it.
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I find it interesting, the players who are now 35-50 years old ,with FR ratings say 700-750 and made a career of playing pool, no other income. How the heck do they live?
They have been playing their entire life and barely win local tourneys, if at all.
In a large event it's a rare occasion they have a decent finish, they never win anything.
And never in a stacked field with players from around the world.

One or two of them travel overseas for world championship and big events. They are in over their heads and are out in the first round, second round if they got lucky.
I'm amazed at some players determination. I understand the love and passion for a game.
How long can you sleep on someones couch and wear the same clothes for 25-30 years?
Teaching lessons to kids and winning a handicap league is lunch money.

Over the last few years players like Woodward, Thorpe, Gorst, Filler, Shaw, too many to mention, and young players from around the world finishing high in events are blowing by these mid tier players, whipping their butt day in and day out.
When following your dreams becomes a nightmare, hopefully you wake up in time.

The Parade has passed by and took the floats with it.
Uber and Lyft provide an income for some the of the guys you mention.
Work when they want to and play pool when they feel like it.
I do agree with you though.
Not much of a future for the guys the eat, sleep, and drink pool without a care for the future.
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I find it interesting, the players who are now 35-50 years old ,with FR ratings say 700-750 and made a career of playing pool, no other income. How the heck do they live?
They have been playing their entire life and barely win local tourneys, if at all.
In a large event it's a rare occasion they have a decent finish, they never win anything.
And never in a stacked field with players from around the world.

One or two of them travel overseas for world championship and big events. They are in over their heads and are out in the first round, second round if they got lucky.
I'm amazed at some players determination. I understand the love and passion for a game.
How long can you sleep on someones couch and wear the same clothes for 25-30 years?
Teaching lessons to kids and winning a handicap league is lunch money.

Over the last few years players like Woodward, Thorpe, Gorst, Filler, Shaw, too many to mention, and young players from around the world finishing high in events are blowing by these mid tier players, whipping their butt day in and day out.
When following your dreams becomes a nightmare, hopefully you wake up in time.

The Parade has passed by and took the floats with it.
That's sort of what I was getting at too. Some may think it's unfair to name names here, but two guys I can't help but wonder about are Brandon Shuff and Hunter Lombardo. They have 735 and 736 FR'ings. I know Hunter does some instruction and whatnot, but I have no idea how they could possibly make a living at this game. If they find a way, more power to them. We could go up the list from there and still wonder how players make it all the way up to 780 or even higher. Professional pool has been in trouble in the U.S. for quite some time, now with an accurate measuring stick of performance, it may only get worse as more players get wake up calls.. The numbers don't lie when it comes to measuring performance.

In my state of Michigan, I know most of the really good amateur players, and NONE of them really had aspirations of becoming pro players. Jeremy Seamen is the true exception and probably the model for how someone could compete with the big boys while working full-time. As far as the parade passing by, yes I think it has for those working 9-5, being married, and maybe being involved in the lives of your kids, etc. In other words, if pool is lower than #2 on your priority list, it's not happening anymore. (Not implying this is Seaman's route, just generally speaking). This is probably the natural evolution of every sport. Time to switch to corn hole or pickleball before they mature beyond our reach too, although those parades would maybe be interesting to watch.
 

philly

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So... you want to make a living at pool?
There are rules, you know?
1. Always play someone you know you can beat.
2. Practice, alone, if necessary, until you can beat someone.
3. Playing better players, only rewards them in their approach to the game.
4. Don't dilly/dally in the same place too long. Pick up a few bucks, here and there, and move along.
5. Etc, etc, etc....
That is the problem with making a living off of pool.
There is a prescribed amount of money that pretty much gets passed back and forth.
The road players of old were not well off by any means.
Road players today are getting outed by video.
Sure, every once in a while a rich whale walks into a poolroom.
Other than that it is the same money going back and forth.
 
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