Hitting the cueball where you think you are hitting it.

[Celtic]

I was reading the Kamui chalk thread and Neil posted this.

Most amateurs do NOT hit the cb where they think they are hitting it. When they do start hitting it where they want to, amazing things start to happen!

It was one of those things that got me wondering if I am hitting the cueball where I think I am hitting the cueball and I realized I don't actually concsiously think about where I am actually contacting the cueball when I am shooting pool. I have been shoot alot in the last couple days getting ready for the league playoffs and one thing that is very clear, I don't think about the actual contact point of any given shot. I know the quadrant I am hitting the cueball in on a shot, but I do not actually think about how many tips to the side or how many tips of tops or bottoms I am using on a shot.

If someone asked me where I think I am hitting the cueball I would actually have to get down in my stroke and for the first time consciously try to determine on any given shot where precisely I am stroking the cueball to get a given resultant motion. When I am aiming a shot it is the resultant motion of the cueball that I am in effect "aiming" and it is a combination of where the tip is striking the cueball, the angle of the shot, the speed I hit the shot, the distance between the cueball and the object ball, tons of factors none of which I actually consciously think about.

Do many of you out there on a long draw shot think to yourself "ok, I have a straight in shot with the cueball 5 feet from the object ball and I need to draw the cueball straight back 6 feet for shape on the next ball. I need about 2 tips of bottom, I need to hit the shot at about 60% stroke speed for this shot." And then you actively attempt to aim to hit 2 tips below center and at a speed that is technically known to you as 60% based on some rating of your stroke speeds you use?

I personally look at the shot seeing how much the cueball needs to be drawn and the actual thought of "where" I am hitting the cueball is not something I focus on. I am instead visualizing the shot and getting a sense of how shooting the shot with the proper spin to get the desired cueball motion will "feel" and then I shoot the shot with that mental guide of the proper shot and desired cueball motion in my head.

How many of us really actually know where we are hitting the cueball or actively think about such things while we are playing the game? I myself in the last two days of 20 hours of pool playing did not actually think about the tip contact point on a single shot that I played.

 

[duckie]

What you describe very well is the transition from thinking about how to do a shot to thinking about what you want to do with a shot.

It can occur after many hours at the table of just hitting ball after ball. You can get to a point of not thinking about how to do the shot to just doing it.

All shots are caroms shot if you really think about it. You are caroming the cb off something to somewhere. In that process you move a ob ball. The real goal of any shot is putting the cb where you want after contacting a ob.

In other words, a shot has two components, hitting the ob and putting the cb where you want.

Where and how you hit the cb is the key factor in all this. This also will affect your aim. This is where the feel part of shot making comes into play and the only way to develop a deep understanding for the feel for what a shot requires is to put in the hours at the table.

By hitting one shot with as many different variations of spin possibly, you will develop the ability to think "I want to do this shot with this spin" and you will get naturally into position using that spin because of the muscle memory developed from hours of practicing just that.

There is no way to ever practice every possible shot in pool. But the bigger your data base of shots that is very close to the unknown one, the better the odds of making it.

Where and how you stroke the CB is the heart of shot making.

 

[sfleinen]

I was reading the Kamui chalk thread and Neil posted this.



It was one of those things that got me wondering if I am hitting the cueball where I think I am hitting the cueball and I realized I don't actually concsiously think about where I am actually contacting the cueball when I am shooting pool. I have been shoot alot in the last couple days getting ready for the league playoffs and one thing that is very clear, I don't think about the actual contact point of any given shot. I know the quadrant I am hitting the cueball in on a shot, but I do not actually think about how many tips to the side or how many tips of tops or bottoms I am using on a shot.

If someone asked me where I think I am hitting the cueball I would actually have to get down in my stroke and for the first time consciously try to determine on any given shot where precisely I am stroking the cueball to get a given resultant motion. When I am aiming a shot it is the resultant motion of the cueball that I am in effect "aiming" and it is a combination of where the tip is striking the cueball, the angle of the shot, the speed I hit the shot, the distance between the cueball and the object ball, tons of factors none of which I actually consciously think about.

Do many of you out there on a long draw shot think to yourself "ok, I have a straight in shot with the cueball 5 feet from the object ball and I need to draw the cueball straight back 6 feet for shape on the next ball. I need about 2 tips of bottom, I need to hit the shot at about 60% stroke speed for this shot." And then you actively attempt to aim to hit 2 tips below center and at a speed that is technically known to you as 60% based on some rating of your stroke speeds you use?

I personally look at the shot seeing how much the cueball needs to be drawn and the actual thought of "where" I am hitting the cueball is not something I focus on. I am instead visualizing the shot and getting a sense of how shooting the shot with the proper spin to get the desired cueball motion will "feel" and then I shoot the shot with that mental guide of the proper shot and desired cueball motion in my head.

How many of us really actually know where we are hitting the cueball or actively think about such things while we are playing the game? I myself in the last two days of 20 hours of pool playing did not actually think about the tip contact point on a single shot that I played.

One of the ways you can really tune yourself into "where" you are hitting the cue ball, is by focusing on a precise center-ball hit. ("Center ball" actually means "on the center axis," btw.)

A lot (and I mean a LOT!) of pool players have adapted styles whereby they unconsciously either "spin" shots into the pocket (i.e. unconsciously cueing off-center with bits of outside english), or they are "compensating" for some anomaly in their stroke, or even both!

One way to see if you're doing this, is to shoot several racks with Joe Tucker's Third-Eye Stroke Trainer attached to your cue. It forces you to make a center-axis hit on EVERY shot, and you (the royal you, Celtic, not you personally) will know if you're one of those with the "unconscious" faults I describe above. That's because the shot will "feel" uncomfortable to you via the fact that the "unconsciously wanted" compensation is now not available to you anymore.

It will teach you (the royal you) how to aim with a center-axis hit every time. Then, when you *do* apply side/english, it's an intentional decision to do so.

Just a thought,
-Sean

 

[champ2107]

One of the ways you can really tune yourself into "where" you are hitting the cue ball, is by focusing on a precise center-ball hit. ("Center ball" actually means "on the center axis," btw.)

A lot (and I mean a LOT!) of pool players have adapted styles whereby they unconsciously either "spin" shots into the pocket (i.e. unconsciously cueing off-center with bits of outside english), or they are "compensating" for some anomaly in their stroke, or even both!

One way to see if you're doing this, is to shoot several racks with Joe Tucker's Third-Eye Stroke Trainer attached to your cue. It forces you to make a center-axis hit on EVERY shot, and you (the royal you, Celtic, not you personally) will know if you're one of those with the "unconscious" faults I describe above. That's because the shot will "feel" uncomfortable to you via the fact that the "unconsciously wanted" compensation is now not available to you anymore.

It will teach you (the royal you) how to aim with a center-axis hit every time. Then, when you *do* apply side/english, it's an intentional decision to do so.

Just a thought,
-Sean

its best you listen to this guy! he potts balls in snooker at over a 90% clip, according to him! AZ patrolling pro and will tell you how it is 100% of the time and tell you is right 100% of the time. He is a high ranking member on AZ in his own mind and it makes him feel god like! just ask him he will tell you!!

 

[Mitchxout]

Hitting the cue ball dead in the center consistently is the hardest shot in pool. Alot (most) of people are hitting cut shots with outside whether they realize it or not. It seems like the easiest thing in the world, just stroke straight thru the center of the ball, but hardly anyone can actually do it. It pays to work on.

 

[Ratta]

One of the ways you can really tune yourself into "where" you are hitting the cue ball, is by focusing on a precise center-ball hit. ("Center ball" actually means "on the center axis," btw.)

A lot (and I mean a LOT!) of pool players have adapted styles whereby they unconsciously either "spin" shots into the pocket (i.e. unconsciously cueing off-center with bits of outside english), or they are "compensating" for some anomaly in their stroke, or even both!

One way to see if you're doing this, is to shoot several racks with Joe Tucker's Third-Eye Stroke Trainer attached to your cue. It forces you to make a center-axis hit on EVERY shot, and you (the royal you, Celtic, not you personally) will know if you're one of those with the "unconscious" faults I describe above. That's because the shot will "feel" uncomfortable to you via the fact that the "unconsciously wanted" compensation is now not available to you anymore.

It will teach you (the royal you) how to aim with a center-axis hit every time. Then, when you *do* apply side/english, it's an intentional decision to do so.

Just a thought,
-Sean

Great posting Sean about *compensation*.


@Champ
Even if no reason is given you re offending for somewhat. Not really understandable.


lg from overseas,

Ingo

 

[barking]

being able to hit the cb without unintentional left or right is critical. to me.

 

[justadub]

its best you listen to this guy! he potts balls in snooker at over a 90% clip, according to him! AZ patrolling pro and will tell you how it is 100% of the time and tell you is right 100% of the time. He is a high ranking member on AZ in his own mind and it makes him feel god like! just ask him he will tell you!!

Really not necessary.

This is how crap gets started in aiming threads, which you are quite familiar with.

 

[sfleinen]

Great posting Sean about *compensation*.


@Champ
Even if no reason is given you re offending for somewhat. Not really understandable.


lg from overseas,

Ingo

Thanks Ingo. Champ is of no consequence to me -- he's on Ignore. I think you can easily see why; his back-biting crayon scribblings offer absolutely no value, yet speak volumes [about his real purpose here] at the same time.

Back on topic, I hope the info is helpful. Honest.
-Sean

 

[Neil]

.................

 

[sfleinen]

Really not necessary.

This is how crap gets started in aiming threads, which you are quite familiar with.

Awww man, did you really have to quote him?

Anyway, my reply to Ingo was a general one, but after reading your quoted part, it's more true than ever.

-Sean

 

[sfleinen]

[...]
KNOWING that the cb will come off a rail at a certain angle is HUGE in the game. After that, it is just speed. Amateurs go to a quadrant on the cb, shortstops go to a tip on the cb, pros go to much less than that.

If I have a shot that I need to move the cb forward or backward a few inches... I know exactly what I need to do to get a stop shot through hours of practice with stop shots. Now, all I have to do is raise or lower my tip just a little to change a stop shot into a little follow or draw.

It really pays off in games like 8 ball or 14.1 or one pocket. Rotational games, you can play big area position, so it's not as critical to move the cb precisely except for safety play.

Agreed -- the bolded part is especially key. Two of the hardest positional shots to master are the "stun follow" and "stun draw" -- where it's not quite a stop shot; the cue ball stumbles forward or backward a precise couple of inches for position.

Great post,
-Sean

 

[champ2107]

Great posting Sean about *compensation*.


@Champ
Even if no reason is given you re offending for somewhat. Not really understandable.


lg from overseas,

Ingo

he has me on ignore but still feels the need to trash me when he sees a quote, so i will act like him and come down to his level also. i accept the fact we dont get along and stay out of each others way, he does not, its that simple and i will trash him twice as much until he grows up. His life revolves around AZ and im sure if he has a good day on AZ he considers that a great day in his life.

 

[justadub]

I might remind you that it was you who felt the need to pick a fight in this thread. And you're upset that he responded?

Grow up, and go harass PJ some more if you feel the need to mix it up. Sean is one of the good guys on the forum, and is undoubtably one of the most fair-minded people here.

 

[champ2107]

I might remind you that it was you who felt the need to pick a fight in this thread. And you're upset that he responded?

Grow up, and go harass PJ some more if you feel the need to mix it up. Sean is one of the good guys on the forum, and is undoubtably one of the most fair-minded people here.

He decided to trash me in the other aiming thread even though I never mentioned him, I did not say a word about him and he felt the need to trash me! Now who needs to grow up? If he stops with these digs at me while he has me on ignore, he will not hear from me, simple. He says he is so smart, let us see if he can figure out how to avoid these issues in the future and if he does not and I cross his posts in a thread I am interested in, he will get 3 or 4 flamed posts back for every one he shoots my way! This is how I deal with condescending, arrogant and trashy people on here! However you deal with it, is your business.

 

[sfleinen]

Last address to champ2107, I promise

He decided to trash me in the other aiming thread even though I never mentioned him, I did not say a word about him and he felt the need to trash me! Now who needs to grow up? If he stops with these digs at me while he has me on ignore, he will not hear from me, simple. He says he is so smart, let us see if he can figure out how to avoid these issues in the future and if he does not and I cross his posts in a thread I am interested in, he will get 3 or 4 flamed posts back for every one he shoots my way! This is how I deal with condescending, arrogant and trashy people on here! However you deal with it, is your business.

Champ:

This is the last time I'm going to address you personally. Someone sent me a PM with the above quoted in it, and no offense to that person, I'm getting sick and tired of having to deal with your crap. I intentionally opened your post above (overriding the Ignore) for the purposes of addressing you directly -- one last time -- and setting the facts straight.

Let's begin:

1. I never "trashed" you. Let's analyze that one. What I did do, was view a post by Monte ("mohrt") whereby he was bewildered why you were attacking him. (And frankly, I was bewildered too, as I'm sure others here are, but I digress.) I responded to Monte, reminding him to stay the course of being the very helpful and contributory person he is, and to put you on Ignore. That is not "trashing" you -- that is a pointed suggestion to fix a problem. Here is my exact post:
   
   

   Why are you trying to pick a fight with me? I don't care how you teach the system, you do what you want. That is what I meant by that statement. I have nothing to be bitter about, and you obviously have no idea what I use.

   
   Monte:
   
   Quick suggestion: bit bucket 'im. No use in trying to defend yourself, as you're one of the most courteous, helpful, and respectful folks on this entire forum. Everyone knows that. Bit bucket 'im (like a lot of us have), and you'll be rid of that obstacle.
   
   Keep up the great work on the blog. It's appreciated by a lot of us out here!
   -Sean

   
   I was very pointed in my suggestion to "bit bucket" you, because it's obvious from your many attacks on varied people here, that you cause more trouble than actual content you contribute. And yes, it's obvious to a lot of us that you like to "pick fights" (to use Monte's words). So hence my suggestion to Monte. He's a helpful guy, who actually contributes very helpful stuff, always posts in a classy way, so he doesn't deserve the treatment by you.
   
   
2. *You* are the one that likes to trash. Exhibit A is how you then fixated on me, and went on an attack spree, following up on several of my subsequent posts with your name-calling drivel. I like how you accuse me of spending my entire day on AZB, when I'm only here on my 5-minute breaks on work, make a post, and then leave. You, however, seem to wile away your entire day here, by your copious and content-less posts. And, I especially like how you say you retaliate to other people putting you on Ignore, by you putting them on Ignore, yet immediately you respond to each and every one of the people supposedly on your "Ignore" list. Yes, another poster's analogy of "a little bit pregnant" or "a touch of AIDS" applies to your comment of putting people [that you retaliate to] "pretty much on Ignore" (your words). That alone speaks volumes about whether anything you say or promise has any worth or real meaning behind it. *That*, by the way, is telling it like it is.
   
   
3. Because two people responded to your latest attack on me, with one person quoting it so I can see it, I then responded in a way that lets you know that I'm not interested in addressing you, but I made my thoughts known about your baseless attacks. And that other person's quote of your attack on me only helped cement my thoughts. I *knew* you were attacking me, but I wasn't interested in looking at them, much less responding to them. However, when other people jump in, and show me what you're posting, I *have* to respond.

To wrap this up, this is the last time I'm directly addressing you. You are a permanent addition to my Ignore list, and I will once again resume my practice of not taking any interest in your "contributions" on these boards. I also reserve the right, when I see that you're attacking people (via them quoting you), to remind them of the Ignore feature. I do this for the benefit of the board -- to remind folks of the [obvious] feature to help maintain civility on these boards. As a club-subscribed member of these boards, it is my right to do this. A lot of us are sick of the needless bickering and attacks.

The next time I have to address your attacks on me, I won't. Rather, it will be in the form of a report to the moderators. *That* is a promise.

-Sean

 

[champ2107]

i made it clear to you and i read only a few lines of your whining post above, if im discussing something with another member and you for some reason feel the need to insult me and provoke me and you have me on ignore lol, you even acknowledge doing so in your post above, you will get it back triple! stay out of my business which is hard for a guy like you to do and i will stay out of yours! its that simple? lol i dont take well to arrogant condescending people on forums, sorry. You know what you will get back from me so dont provoke me on purpose, good luck teaching the world and im sure you will make the AZ hall of fame someday! :thumbup:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

justadub:
Grow up, and go harass PJ some more if you feel the need to mix it up.

That would be the grown up thing to do?

He'll have to get in line with everybody else.

pj
chgo

 

[sfleinen]

Congrats for post 10,000, Pat!

 

[justadub]

That would be the grown up thing to do?

He'll have to get in line with everybody else.

pj
chgo

You are quite correct, I should have used a "or" in there. Poorly written on my part, one finger typing this on my phone.

I think he's near the head of the line, at least recently.

And i know that you know how to deal with it, thus my suggestion. Not trying to pawn off other peoples troubles on you...